First foray into tube amps


I just read the thread on McIntosh and it has prompted me to start this thread.  I would like to try a tube power amp, but I have no experience with tubes.  For now, at least, I am pretty well settled on the rest of my system: Stirling LS3/6 speakers with dual SVS 3000 micro subs, Node 130 streamer with PD Creative/LHY power and English Eight switch, Bacch4Mac crosstalk elimination and DSP, RME Fireface dac/interconnect.  I’ll be replacing a Peachtree Gan1.  The room is 23x16x8 and is well treated.  I listen at low to moderate volumes, lots of vocals, blues, Argentine Tango, some classic rock.  I love that BBC mid-range magic, and think I want a little more warmth than I have now - but without giving up any precision or detail.  I find very analytical high end reproduction to be unpleasant, though.  On the low end, I dislike mushiness.  I really like bass details without slam - think of Holly Cole’s Train Song listening to those bass transients tail off.

So, I think that some tube amps might fit the bill and are within budget (say $5,000).  Here is my provisional short list: McIntosh MC275 MK6, Conrad Johnson MV60SE, Quicksilver Mid-Monos or 88 Monos, PrimaLuna Evo 300 or 400.  There are many others, and I’d welcome suggestions. I can’t tell if these or some other amp would likely have better synergy with my speakers/room/music preferences.  I realize that I may need to try several amps to find which one sounds best to me - but where to start?  Many thanks.

treepmeyer

@musicfan2349 

I suspect neither of us is saying the other is wrong, just two sides of the thing, yours a worthwhile contribution.

My comments are not absolute, but meant to be general considerations. I encourage trying tubes, and look to make it easier and successful, in most respects, less entry and future costs.

We need double the power to make a +3db noticeable increment of more volume. Then double again for a bit more volume, +3db in each perceptible step up.

That adds up very fast, and when you start at 83, up to 86, up to 89, you need to double your power twice. We start out needing only 1 to 5 wpc (which surprises a lot of people who do not have power meters). As you say, your speakers sound excellent but no way can you play them loud or too loud.

Your amp is 100 wpc, driving 83 db sensitivity.

My office, 10 wpc driving 90 db sensitivity

My main system 45 wpc driving 16 ohm horns well over 100 db sensitivity

OP speakers are 87 db sensitivity.

Like yours, my AR-2ax sound wonderful in my small office, however, I often turn the volume higher or far higher than I do in my other two systems, and it never gets loud or too loud. Thus, for very dynamic instantaneous peaks, it is doubtful in my mind that 10 wpc for 90 db sensitivity is ’enough’ or ’comfortably enough’, just as I might doubt that your 100 wpc is.

I mentioned keeping power needs lower, to get in a category of more competitive options, as well as the other advantages. 30 to 45 wpc is a very competitive group, 100 wpc less so.

I do not want to lift or move a 100 wpc tube amp. It’s heat is much greater, positioning restricted ....

The mcintosh  275 is 75 watts on stero.when you want more get a 2nd amp in the future 150 watts per channel in mono.that design has been around forever and just works.it will retain its value if you buy used version v1 or 6 is about 5k in your budget. Enjoy the hunt.

@elliottbnewcombjr Let's take another look at the OP's stated requirements and the room for them: "The room is 23x16x8 and is well treated.  I listen at low to moderate volumes, lots of vocals, blues, Argentine Tango, some classic rock."

As a former software engineer, I can tell you that requirements are everything...

Granted the terms "low to moderate" are somewhat subjective in nature, keeping in mind his self-powered subwoofers, I would think 75 to 100 WPC would be more than sufficient to drive the 8ohm Stirlings to pleasantly loud level without too much strain. 

Proceeding further here's a review of them:

Stirling Broadcast BBC LS3/6 loudspeaker | Stereophile.com

(Please note the wattages of the amplifiers used in the review.)

In closing, I would suggest that there are many reasonably priced tubed candidates for @treepmeyer to insert his system.

Happy listening.

@elliottbnewcombjr 

"We need double the power to make a +3db noticeable increment of more volume. Then double again for a bit more volume, +3db in each perceptible step up."

Elliot, you could also say that every 3 dB increase in a speaker's efficiency using hypothetically the same 20-watt amplifier is like doubling it's power output. Say, if you went from an 85 dB speaker to an 88 dB sensitive one it would give you a 3 dB increase in volume. Quite substantial from a headroom point of view.

@mark200mph 

I agree MC275 is a very good choice.

I often think starting with an amp that can be converted to mono makes a lot of sense, especially if liking low sensitivity speakers.

Reserves for Instantaneous Peaks is the concern.

I did discover, when converting to mono, often one of the impedance options/taps is no longer viable (they get converted).

For the OP, his chosen 8 ohm speakers, MC275 it’s irrelevant, for me, my Vintage speakers are 16 ohms, it matters.

in the MC275, the taps become half of their designation: 4 becomes 2; 8 becomes 4; 16 becomes 8 ohms (thus 16 ohm speakers would need to be connected to what became an 8 ohm tap,

not ’wrong’ in terms of danger, however frequency response will be slightly altered, there are articles to find, some guitarists purposely do this to get a slightly different sound out of their stage amps.

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https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/-/media/Files/mcintoshlabs/DocumentMaster/us/mc275bom01.pdf?rev=0c6db59bb1b141baac73dadb6b9c76b0&revision=0c6db59b-b1b1-41ba-ac73-dadb6b9c76b0

excerpt:

"Power Output Stereo Minimum sine wave continuous average power output per channel, both channels operating is: 75 watts into 4 ohm loads 75 watts into 8 ohm loads 75 watts into 16 ohm loads

Power Output Mono (Parallel) Minimum sine wave continuous average power output is: 150 watts into 2 ohm load 150 watts into 4 ohm load 150 watts into 8 ohm load

Output Load Impedance

4, 8 or 16 ohms (Stereo Mode)

2, 4 or 8 ohms (Mono Mode)"

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It does matter if OP chooses 8 ohm speakers and an amp that starts at 8 ohm (lacking a 16 ohm tap), and converts to Mono which converts that tap to 4 ohms.

Perhaps it only slightly matters.