@richardbrand I have been buying classical records since the 1960s, but never liked the way DGG mastered their records. They usually sounded dark, muddy, rumble-like. Their engineers even 'succeeded' in doing that with original masters coming from the UK or elsewhere. Among my favourites are Philips Holland pressings with the red label from the early 1970s. If these recordings give you rumble as you describe, then it must be your deck. (My humble opinion...) I am still using a Pink Triangle Export Gti, one of the most transparent and unforgiving turntables ever made.
Where do classical vinyl records get their rumble from?
Recently converted back to vinyl from silver disks, I am struck by how much rumble seems to be inherent in the new and used vinyl I am buying.
A case in point, is a recent Deutsche Grammophon (DG) recording (487 7484) of Mahler’s Second Symphony made at a live performance at the Sydney Opera House (I was there). The first set I bought was amongst the dirtiest pressings I have ever had, but the second set was much improved. However, there is a persistent rumble whether played on my Holbo Mk2 air bearing system or my venerable Garrard 301 (new bearing from Classic Turntable Company).
Mahler typically has huge dynamic range, from muted off-stage performers to hundreds of musicians going hell-for-leather.
The rumble could be partly caused by the venue’s air conditioning system, but I hear similar background on a Telarc recording (Stereo 10051) of Saint Saens Organ Symphony made in Philadelphia. Telarc even arranged to have local roads shut down for the recording sessions.
Similar efforts were made by DG when recording the organ at Notre Dame in Paris, where recording was done late at night to reduce traffic noise. My copy includes Dolby Atmos on Pure-Audio Bly-ray (DG 486 1466).
I was beginning to think the rumble was inherent in my tables, but then I played a German Direct Metal Mastered (DMM) set from In-Akustik for Clearaudio’s 40th anniversary (INAK 78051 2LP). It includes some Telarc tracks. This set has the quietest background I’ve never heard. There is virtually no rumble, exonerating my tables.
So apart from the recoding venue’s air conditioning and traffic noise, why do so many classical records seem to have built-in rumble? Could it be from the mastering lathe?
I am really only thinking about classical recordings where the dynamic range approximates the signal to noise ratio of vinyl, meaning that very low-level signals are musically important, while simultaneously bumping against the noise floor.
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Au contraire, mon ami. RB was questioning the frequency at which compliance is ’measured for one of his cartridges. The correct answer cannot be "1kHz, 5cm/sec". Raul answered RB’s question. The Japanese measure C at 100 or so Hz, and the rest of us measure it at 10Hz. And the formula that uses C to calculate resonant frequency wants the value for C at 10Hz for a proper solution to Fr. My problem is inserting data provided by manufacturers to calculate Fr is fraught with the possibility, or the probability, for error. Because the actual value of C for a single sample of cartridge X is quite likely to be different from the manufacturer spec, and the effective mass of one's actual tonearm is even more problematic. Better to measure Fr directly using the cartridge and tonearm for which you want to know it. |
@rauliruegas put it in the simplest of terms, the Japanese is one methodology over another, he even gave a rough approximation in percent to calculate the difference so Richard can use the VE table. You'll arrive at the same end result. I rely on the VE table myself and likewise compensated for the disparity in the Japanese vs Western methods when I set my Hana cartridge and Luxman turntable. Both are designed and manufactured in Japan. Not rocket science and Richard could do his own discovery instead of wasting time here going back and forth over trivialities with sincere hobbyists. |
Or maybe it's just a poorly designed bearing and one surface where there is supposed to be an airspace is rubbing against another. The original Garrard 301 has a rim driven platter. Notorious for transmitting motor noise up through the chain. Considered broadcast quality at one time or not they were superseded by belt drive when high quality FM broadcasts became the norm. Individuals like to wax nostalgic for whatever reason, practical or not. |
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