Where do classical vinyl records get their rumble from?
Recently converted back to vinyl from silver disks, I am struck by how much rumble seems to be inherent in the new and used vinyl I am buying.
A case in point, is a recent Deutsche Grammophon (DG) recording (487 7484) of Mahler’s Second Symphony made at a live performance at the Sydney Opera House (I was there). The first set I bought was amongst the dirtiest pressings I have ever had, but the second set was much improved. However, there is a persistent rumble whether played on my Holbo Mk2 air bearing system or my venerable Garrard 301 (new bearing from Classic Turntable Company).
Mahler typically has huge dynamic range, from muted off-stage performers to hundreds of musicians going hell-for-leather.
The rumble could be partly caused by the venue’s air conditioning system, but I hear similar background on a Telarc recording (Stereo 10051) of Saint Saens Organ Symphony made in Philadelphia. Telarc even arranged to have local roads shut down for the recording sessions.
Similar efforts were made by DG when recording the organ at Notre Dame in Paris, where recording was done late at night to reduce traffic noise. My copy includes Dolby Atmos on Pure-Audio Bly-ray (DG 486 1466).
I was beginning to think the rumble was inherent in my tables, but then I played a German Direct Metal Mastered (DMM) set from In-Akustik for Clearaudio’s 40th anniversary (INAK 78051 2LP). It includes some Telarc tracks. This set has the quietest background I’ve never heard. There is virtually no rumble, exonerating my tables.
So apart from the recoding venue’s air conditioning and traffic noise, why do so many classical records seem to have built-in rumble? Could it be from the mastering lathe?
I am really only thinking about classical recordings where the dynamic range approximates the signal to noise ratio of vinyl, meaning that very low-level signals are musically important, while simultaneously bumping against the noise floor.
That’s the standard for measuring output voltage of a cartridge. What "alluded" me was the frequency at which the compliance was measured. They are of course completely different
The distortion increases significantly at high frequencies. I reported what I heard before @billstevenson came up with an explanation. The review adds further credibility. This is the way science should work.
That I can believe, but I think the true meaning eluded you |
You just love to spin things. Apparently, you don’t read manufacturer’s specifications. All of the specs are derived from that parameter. It’s a design center that is used across the board on just about all audio components, THD distortion, power output, tracking etc. etc. read some spec sheets and reviews! Hi Fi news like I quoted earlier, Stereophile and if you look on the WEB, from Germany, Japan that your internet provider software will translate for you and even publications in, wait for it, Australia will provide in depth technical analysis and all you have to do is decipher. Of course there are other more important parameters that are measured that aren’t as nearly marketable as 1Khz that you always see like square wave response, various spectrum analysis, THD vs frequency (which is the only meaningful measurement of a power amplifier’s power output.) and intermodulation distortion which is the most audible compared to THD which for the most part is benign. |
@richardbrand I have been buying classical records since the 1960s, but never liked the way DGG mastered their records. They usually sounded dark, muddy, rumble-like. Their engineers even 'succeeded' in doing that with original masters coming from the UK or elsewhere. Among my favourites are Philips Holland pressings with the red label from the early 1970s. If these recordings give you rumble as you describe, then it must be your deck. (My humble opinion...) I am still using a Pink Triangle Export Gti, one of the most transparent and unforgiving turntables ever made. |
Au contraire, mon ami. RB was questioning the frequency at which compliance is ’measured for one of his cartridges. The correct answer cannot be "1kHz, 5cm/sec". Raul answered RB’s question. The Japanese measure C at 100 or so Hz, and the rest of us measure it at 10Hz. And the formula that uses C to calculate resonant frequency wants the value for C at 10Hz for a proper solution to Fr. My problem is inserting data provided by manufacturers to calculate Fr is fraught with the possibility, or the probability, for error. Because the actual value of C for a single sample of cartridge X is quite likely to be different from the manufacturer spec, and the effective mass of one's actual tonearm is even more problematic. Better to measure Fr directly using the cartridge and tonearm for which you want to know it. |
