Turntable advice / opinion on setup / sound.

@faustuss 

Re your comment that Finite Element Analysis is

just CAD with some proprietary modules

That’s like saying word processing and spreadsheets are the same because Word and Excel are part of Office, or the differences between the Qu’ran and the Bible don’t matter because they are both books!

The Commodor(e), is that the one that was crash tested into a fixed barrier at 35 MPH and the whole structure collapsed from stem to stern?

I’ve not heard that story! The Holden Commodore VE and VF series, which were the Australian ones designed and built using CAD/CAM, were the biggest selling vehicle in Australia, and in their performance versions one of the world’s fastest 4-door cars.  They were exported to the USA as police pursuit vehicles.

star shaped token ring topology

Token Ring was touted by IBM as an alternative to Ethernet.  All audiophiles know the outcome of that little struggle. The idea is that you can only transmit if you have the magic token, which is passed from one device to the next in a ’ring’. Problem is that the token stops if a device drops out. Solution: have a central controller and make the ring star-shaped with the controller in the middle. But what happens if the controller fails? A contemporary quote went along the line "if Bell made the telephone network like an IBM network, everybody would have to hang up before you could add a subscriber".

Interestingly, the technology we were developing in very short time supplanted main frames all together and a lot of the companies that thrived in our area, Wang, Digital, Data General, Prime and others went out of business and startups in the main frame arena like Sequoya never had a chance. 

Really!  You are dreaming. Before the VAX (a minicomputer), computing was dominated by mainframes from IBM and the BUNCH - Burroughs, Univac, NCR, Control Data Corporation and Honeywell.  The VAX success grew Digital into the second biggest computer company in the world. I had to wait 18 months to get mine.  The boss of Data General is on record saying he was happy for his company to survive on the orders Digital could not fill!

The VAX architecture remained in production for an astonishing 23 years until supplanted by the 64-bit Alpha design. Digital found it easy to make slower versions of the original 11/780 but very hard to make one much faster.  If they added boards, it slowed communication between the boards.  The 11/780 was their main game for six years, an astounding time in computing. They did eventually produce the mainframe-class 6000 and 9000 models, but the real breakthrough in performance was the single-chip MicroVAX models.  Some they speeded up simply by reducing the photolithography used to print the circuits on the chips, so the electrons had less distance to travel.

Meanwhile, the BUNCH was dying. I remember a full-page advert in the Australian newspaper urging VAX users to trade in against Control Data Corporation’s new Cyber series.  I thought it was such a joke that I hung the ad in my office.  But it turned out it was not a joke.  I later met the guy behind the campaign, which he claimed was highly successful.  They got two genuine enquiries wanting to buy traded-in VAXes. Control Data had realised the game was up, and were moving to hardware maintenance for VAX computers and needed spare parts!

By the way, the dreadful corporate history of British Leyland never involved nationalisation, although the government did briefly become the major shareholder with a controlling interest.

I was working in the steel industry and genuinely did get nationalised. 25% instant pay rise, too.  Did not compete with becoming a ten pound pom though.

@richardbrand 

"That’s like saying word processing and spreadsheets are the same because Word and Excel are part of Office, or the differences between the Qu’ran and the Bible don’t matter because they are both books!"

The point is that such tools have been accessible and at low cost for a very long time.

"I’ve not heard that story! The Holden Commodore VE and VF series, which were the Australian ones designed and built using CAD/CAM, were the biggest selling vehicle in Australia, and in their performance versions one of the world’s fastest 4-door cars.  They were exported to the USA as police pursuit vehicles."

Here ya go.

https://youtu.be/CgjtSilW8yM?si=5vGTfNF-nXmiG4Ml

"Some they speeded up simply by reducing the photolithography used to print the circuits on the chips, so the electrons had less distance to travel."

Around that time, they also learned how to use copper instead of aluminum as a base material. Said to have improved performance quantifiably.

"The VAX architecture remained in production for an astonishing 23 years until supplanted by the 64-bit Alpha design."

The hardware was only in production eleven years though support for the platform probably continued do to the fact that the lease's were still obligated to their initial investment.

The "Alpha" design had a short reign as shortly after Digital's manufacturing was acquired by Compaq and it's intellectual property by Intel where the "Alpha" was incorporated and marketed as Pentium. Subsequently, Compaq succumbed due to poor management and internal squabbling and was acquired by Hewlitt Packard.

"Token Ring was touted by IBM as an alternative to Ethernet.  All audiophiles know the outcome of that little struggle. The idea is that you can only transmit if you have the magic token, which is passed from one device to the next in a ’ring’. Problem is that the token stops if a device drops out. Solution: have a central controller and make the ring star-shaped with the controller in the middle. But what happens if the controller fails? A contemporary quote went along the line "if Bell made the telephone network like an IBM network, everybody would have to hang up before you could add a subscriber"."

Ethernet certainly usurped Token Ring but Local area Networks have become the rule instead of the exception.

"Before the VAX (a minicomputer), computing was dominated by mainframes from IBM and the BUNCH - Burroughs, Univac, NCR, Control Data Corporation and Honeywell."

The olden days.

"Before the VAX (a minicomputer)"

It was still a sizable chunk of hardware and required constant internal and outside support to keep it functioning properly and the users happy.

@faustuss 

That appalling crash video of an early Australian Holden Commodore should be taken in context.  It was done to validate the test procedure, not the car!  The car was a second-hand crate and was loaded with 300-kgs of sand, some in the boot.  It was originally a European design from Opel which had to be beefed up just to survive Australian roads.  The impact speed was 60-mph not the 35-mph you quoted - over three times the kinetic energy.  Not survivable in anything!

The point is that such tools have been accessible and at low cost for a very long time

And my point was that these tools were simply not available at any cost when Roy was starting out, whereas they were the research basis for Wilson Benesch's foundation decades later.

I am a contemporary of Roy's and went through a highly regarded university where the word computer was never mentioned although the university had built a pioneering one called EDSAC in the late 1940s following on from the work at Bletchley Park. Also descended from Bletchley Park was Cybor House in Sheffield, widely regarded as the top operational research outfit in Europe. We had three computers there, an ICL mainframe, an Elliot 503 (still 2-tons in weight) and a real-time computer locked in a mobile truck for on-site process control development. All input was by punched cards (mainframe) or paper tape, so all batch processed. 

Not a sign of a time-sharing terminal or a network, let alone a personal computer or a mobile phone.  Things were totally different back in the day when Roy was starting Rega.

@richardbrand 

"That appalling crash video of an early Australian Holden Commodore should be taken in context.  It was done to validate the test procedure, not the car!  The car was a second-hand crate and was loaded with 300-kgs of sand, some in the boot.  It was originally a European design from Opel which had to be beefed up just to survive Australian roads.  The impact speed was 60-mph not the 35-mph you quoted - over three times the kinetic energy.  Not survivable in anything!"

You can take if facetiously or not, it’s the one I was referring to.

"And my point was that these tools were simply not available at any cost when Roy was starting out, whereas they were the research basis for Wilson Benesch’s foundation decades later.

I am a contemporary of Roy’s and went through a highly regarded university where the word computer was never mentioned although the university had built a pioneering one called EDSAC in the late 1940s following on from the work at Bletchley Park. Also descended from Bletchley Park was Cybor House in Sheffield, widely regarded as the top operational research outfit in Europe. We had three computers there, an ICL mainframe, an Elliot 503 (still 2-tons in weight) and a real-time computer locked in a mobile truck for on-site process control development. All input was by punched cards (mainframe) or paper tape, so all batch processed. 

Not a sign of a time-sharing terminal or a network, let alone a personal computer or a mobile phone.  Things were totally different back in the day when Roy was starting Rega."

Mm, Rega didn’t get into the electronics game until around 1990 and Terry would have access to these tools by then and I’m sure Roy would have invested in them.

"I am a contemporary of Roy’s and went through a highly regarded university where the word computer was never mentioned although the university had built a pioneering one called EDSAC in the late 1940s following on from the work at Bletchley Park. Also descended from Bletchley Park was Cybor House in Sheffield, widely regarded as the top operational research outfit in Europe. We had three computers there, an ICL mainframe, an Elliot 503 (still 2-tons in weight) and a real-time computer locked in a mobile truck for on-site process control development. All input was by punched cards (mainframe) or paper tape, so all batch processed."

Specifically, though, what’s all this gibberish have to do with the discussion?

@faustuss 

Mm, Rega didn’t get into the electronics game until around 1990 and Terry would have access to these tools by then and I’m sure Roy would have invested in them ... Specifically, though, what’s all this gibberish have to do with the discussion?

The original discussion was about turntables and cartridges.  Somebody introduced Rega, to a pretty mixed reception.  I thought it interesting to compare the empirical, bottom-up evolution of Rega with the decades-later top-down introduction of Wilson Benesch.

My reading of Rega's history from 1973 is that they originally supplied arms from other manufacturers, before investing in the tooling required to make their own cast aluminium arm, the 1983 RB300.  Only when that tooling wore out, and they moved to magnesium, did they use computer modelling.