Turntable advice / opinion on setup / sound.


Hello all you analog experts. I am seeking some advice, opinions and direction to try, based on my tastes and setup. 

I’m not loving my current TT sound but there are variables that could cause this. For reference, my favorite TT I ever owned was the ClearAudio Champion Level 2 (wish I never sold it) because it was warm and had a huge stage. 

  1. I listen to every style of music, smooth jazz to hard metal. 
  2. I have to turn the volume way up to get the get the level I like which at times has hiss and a tiny bit of hum. Compared to digital sources which have none of these issues. 
  3. I find this setup to lack huge stage and warmth. 

My current system is:

  1. Rega Planar 8 w/ Alpheta 2 MC cart.  
  2. Cambridge Audio -> Alva Duo Phono Pre amp
  3. Mark Levinson -> No 585 Amp. 
  4. Martin Logan 15a Renaissance -> 8FT apart/ 3ft off the front wall and 3 FT from each side wall. I sit 9FT away from the speakers.  

The turntables I am considering are:

1) Musical Fidelity -> M8XTT

What cart would you use?

2) Michell Audio -> Gyro SE Turntable

3) Clear Audio Champion Level 2

Thank you all in advance for any guidance and opinions you can offer. 

necrosuit

As groove tortuosity changes with music, the skating force is changing in proportion.  Why there is no such thing as "correct" AS.  Why setting the AS based on grooveless vinyl is fraught but does give one a false sense of certainty.

RB, You wrote, "It bothers me when you refer to the headshell offset angle as an angular error. In fact, it is designed to reduce the angular error between groove and cartridge to as close to zero as possible, within the geometrical constraints of a pivoting system.  Properly set up, there are two points during play where the angular error is zero, Outside these points, the error is under 2-degrees, not around 20-degrees as you imply."

I referred to the headshell offset angle as an angular error, because it IS an angle and it DOES create an error in terms of its contribution to creating a skating force. Yes, it was introduced to minimize TAE, but it adds to the skating force, nonetheless. Lofgren et al, introduced the notion of an overhung tonearm with headshell offset angle in order to minimize TAE. He published his paper in around 1940. He had to posit a headshell offset angle in order to achieve his goal of minimal TAE. An overhung pivoted tonearm with no headshell offset can never reach a null point on an LP surface and would have bogs of TAE, otherrwise. Yes, with his formula, it is possible to achieve two null points on the playing surface of an LP (even though his math paper was published before stereo, before LPs, before vinyl even), where "null point" is defined as zero TAE.  But even at the two null points, we still have an angle between a line drawn through the cantilever (I don't think there was such a thing as a cartridge, let alone a cantilever, in 1940) and a line drawn from the stylus tip back through the pivot; that angle being equal to the headshell offset angle, which causes skating.

as many have said before, the Rega is as good as it gets, but the Cambridge phono stage is way out this league here. It's definitely not an adequate match.

@elliottbnewcombjr 

You were responding to @billstevenson’s -

 "Yes, well please don’t be offended, but the simple answer for me is to use Rega cartridges on Rega turntables. If I wind up buying a Rega TT that is what I would do. There are many other excellent options for other brands of cartridges."

Your specifically underlined, to which I responded

"bill,

I’m not offended, there have been several members lately who want to do this.

Apple and Rega may make terrific products, they are both proprietary greedy, neither one will get a dollar from me. 

I would rather run out of gas than buy Exxon, since the Valdez."

Then after the thread has intermittently gone off the rails!

 

 

Post removed 

@faustuss 

My Exxon comments make me seem like a rabid mouthed long haired unwashed hippie.

You could have said ’I like Rega, it’s a shame you don’t’, but you went off the deep end, and seemed to me like a MOONIE. (Rev. Moon devotees).

There were so many of them outside and inside Penn Station, they used to ’slow me down’ trying to catch my train.

This thread, the many Rega fans ’slowed me down’ trying to get simple answers. It was you, finally, who led me to the null point answers, I again thank you.

As I said before, there is no way it should have taken me such repeated, persistent effort to get the answer.

I don’t compare Rega to Apple, but I put them in the same category, there is NO reason to make 14 mm high cartridges combined with a fixed arm height.

’Nasty’ seemed to stir the pot, I overstate things often, but I find it UNFORGIVABLE, like the Valdez, like printing light grey on white, like no printed measurements, like a ’new’ method, only 1 mark (not measurement), on a template that might be lost, rather than the long established industry standard of two null points. They do not, purposely do not, because they do not want to encourage using non-Rega cartridges!!!!! I will Never think otherwise.

/////////////////////////////////

To ’beat that exclusion’ Ortofon made some 14mm high models.

Where’s the list of 14mm high cartridges? Anyone?

btw, I don't recall seeing a Moonie 'on his knees'.