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Do streamers make a difference?

Just added the Nagra Streamer and I can wholeheartedly say yes, it does. Without buttons, remote control or a screen, it is elegant in its simplicity. On the other hand, its music selection is anything but simple as it accommodates Qobuz Connect, Tidal Connect, and Spotify Connect. It is Roon ready/Roon Tested, JPLAY Certified, and plays with Audirvāna, Airplay 2, UPnP/dlna for local files and vTuner for radio access.

It is a wonderful device and I hear more music and I hear the music more clearly. But in the interest of full disclosure, is it the streamer or the result of removing a USB connection?

My previous system used a Roon Nucleus Plus as server and streamer and was fed via an AudioQuest Vodka RJ/E ethernet cable from an Xfinity XB7-T modem/router. The Nucleus was then connected via an AudioQuest Dragon USB cable to a Playback Designs USB-X4 interface, which connected to a Playback Designs MPD-8 DAC using their proprietary high-bandwidth fiberoptic cable. In addition to the fiberoptic connection providing galvanic isolation, the USB-X4 also reduces jitter with a clock that is identical to the clock in the MPD-8.

The new system has the Nucleus and the Nagra Streamer each connected via Vodka ethernet cables to the Xfinity XB7-T.  Nagra and Playback Designs share design technology and the Nagra Streamer connects to the MPD-8 with the same proprietary fiberoptic connection as the USB-X4 and also incorporates the identical clock, yielding the same sonic benefits in terms of noise and jitter reduction.

There is definite improvement in terms of detail and space. There is simply more to the music. I venture that the streamer contributes the lion’s share but acknowledge that I have removed a USB connection from the flow, which may also contribute to the difference. 

While I believe it is a great addition to my system, the Nagra is not for everybody since its connectivity is limited to only two outputs, the second being an S/PDIF. The USB port is an input for hard and flash drives. 

The matching Nagra Compact PSU almost doubles the purchase price so I have ordered a Teddy Pardo LPS to replace the included SMPS. 

I do not use a network switch since I have only the two ethernet connections and see no reason to isolate one from the other. I also believe clocking is not an issue, but I am interested in what others think on both fronts.

Of note, EMM employ a similar proprietary fiberoptic cable set-up but utilize a different format that is not compatible with Nagra and Playback Designs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

tcutter
mclinnguy's avatar
mclinnguy
1,082 posts
 

@phusis 

I agree with your findings, i.e.: that streamers and their differences are of a lesser magnitude at least than those found within the other component groups mentioned.

And others (who have listened to more stuff than everyone in this thread put together) have this to say: 

"Put it this way: I would rather have Oladra running a more modest system than have absolute top-end audio driven by a more off-the-shelf server. "

https://hifiplus.com/articles/antipodes-audio-oladra/

 

This is also a good read: 

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/higher-end-dacs

 

lalitk's avatar
lalitk
6,180 posts
 

@mclinnguy 

If someone can’t hear or appreciate the difference between a purpose-built streamer and an off-the-shelf server, it’s a cue to step back and consider the bigger picture…their overall audio system philosophy.

Not every system is configured to reveal that level of nuance, and that’s perfectly fine. What really matters is alignment between the system and the listener’s goals.

And at the end of the day, we all have different priorities or simply at different stages in their audio journey 😊

phusis's avatar
phusis
1,392 posts
 

@lalitk wrote:

If someone can’t hear or appreciate the difference between a purpose-built streamer and an off-the-shelf server, it’s a cue to step back and consider the bigger picture…their overall audio system philosophy.

Not every system is configured to reveal that level of nuance ...

Give me a break - could you be a bit more condescending? Saying the difference between streamers to my ears is of lesser magnitude isn’t saying there’s no difference. Compared to my current streaming solution mid level or -priced (DAC/)streamers counting the likes of Lumin P1, NuPrime Evolution Stream and Eversolo A10 is really about difference flavors more than one being better than the other.

What is does take to really open the sonic canvas and make a worthwhile difference is something like a Grimm MU1, but the problem is the sucker comes with a steep addition in price, and currently at least it’s an outlay I’m not prepared to throw at it. The point being: for any meaningful improvement compared to where I am now, it takes a lot of dough. 

And just to be clear: when a "purpose built" streamer up to about $5k can’t improve on a DIY streamer (with low ripple PSU, server motherboard, audibly selected processor, RAM, OS storage type, M.2 NVMe music storage, pro AES/EBU digital out $1k pro sound card and software optimizations), it doesn’t amount to much more than an off-the-shelf unit when all is said and done. 

fire_water's avatar
fire_water
241 posts
 

@phusis lalitk isn't being condescending—he’s just authoritative and highly knowledgeable in the area. Do you have a turntable? If so are all turntables, cartridges and stylus alike? No they aren't and neither are streamers. It's not about flavor,  it's all about the electronics that make one streamer superior over another. Streamers and DACs like anything else continue to evolve and improve.

phusis's avatar
phusis
1,392 posts
 

@fire_water wrote:

lalitk isn't being condescending—he’s just authoritative and highly knowledgeable in the area.

Might well be, but going by his reply just above I'd say he's full of it. 

Do you have a turntable? If so are all turntables, cartridges and stylus alike? No they aren't and neither are streamers.

Did you read what I wrote above? If you did, and was able to comprehend it, you wouldn't reply the above. But for sake of leniency, what was the context of my reply? I'll reiterate: streamers, and that I found the differences between them to be of a lesser magnitude than other component groups.

So where exactly did I say streamers all sounded alike? Nowhere, and of course you should be able to deduce that the same goes for the other categories of equipment, more so even. 

It's not about flavor,  it's all about the electronics that make one streamer superior over another. Streamers and DACs like anything else continue to evolve and improve.

This is not what's really discussed by me on a broader scale, but within a certain range of streamers, which was my context, it can very well be about flavors. Until it's not when that pricier unit (like the Grimm Audio MU1) improves in areas that I regard as objectively better being more resolved, tonally more accurate, better dynamic contrast (lower noise floor), spatially more acute, etc. 

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