Do streamers make a difference?

@ted_b 

and thank you

I opted to go with a streamer dac combo - lumin x1.  I did have a separate dac, chord tt2, and it was lovely and had all these really cute changing lights on it.  It's in a box waiting to be adopted.

I like the idea of integrating these items. But only if it truly is the appropriate marriage.  I think this is OK to do and avoids the torture of selecting interconnects and the temptation of swapping out the dac every once in a while.

@hilde45 wrote:

I wish I had ears that could make this determination – I do not.

I have done extensive A/B comparisons – between amplifiers (I can usually detect relatively large audible differences between many amps), between  preamps (subtler for SS comparisons but tube preamps vary widely), between DACs (still quite detectable but sometimes vanishingly small differences, depending on the units). But streamer differences – almost nothing compared to the others – for me.

My inability to hear may be a prejudice based on my understanding of how these things work – which may be wrong.

As I understand it, of all the components in the signal chain, streamers have the weakest theoretical basis for audible differences. A streamer’s job is to pass a bitstream intact to the DAC — and on a functioning network, that’s exactly what it does, regardless of price. Unlike amplifiers, preamps, or DACs, it operates entirely outside the analog domain and adds no gain, no impedance interaction, and no signal processing.

The one technically coherent argument is jitter, but modern DACs with asynchronous inputs and onboard reclocking largely eliminate whatever jitter the streamer introduces before conversion even happens. So even that argument depends on a poorly designed DAC to have traction.

Contrast this with amplifiers, preamps, and DACs, where differences are not only audible but measurable and theoretically explicable — gain, distortion profiles, impedance interactions, reconstruction algorithms. There’s a clear prior reason to expect variation before you even sit down to listen.

This makes streamer comparisons hard for me. If I bought an expensive streamer, my expectations would be high and there’d be ideal conditions for motivated perception. 

These are the prejudices I have which might be preventing me from hearing differences. Or, it could be my physiological hearing, which is getting worse as I age.

I agree with your findings, i.e.: that streamers and their differences are of a lesser magnitude at least than those found within the other component groups mentioned.

That being the case I would stay true to my stance and take care not to question it in the midst technical scrutiny in an effort perhaps to validate, or rather invalidate my own findings to align them with a general consensus holding that streamers make a bigger(?) difference (yeah, noise suppression matters, but sometimes it can have a tendency to suppress more than noise, and if you take into account how much is written about noise suppression one can’t help but feel it’s hardly met with an equivalent in actual, perceived impressions).  

I take it it’s about the degree of difference you expect from a monetary outlay that doesn’t hold up to a decision about turning it into an investment, whereas to others a perceived difference, indeed any difference will be enough to warrant a purchase - even if it means an additional thousands of $$.

It’s of course a big assumption of mine, because "any" perceived difference to me could well mean something else and more to others. Be that as it may, and this is my main point: what matters in the context of your setup and ears is your assessment and not that of others; if what you hear from streamers is of lesser significance, then don’t stray from that conviction and invest elsewhere where you feel it matters more. 

@phusis 

I agree with your findings, i.e.: that streamers and their differences are of a lesser magnitude at least than those found within the other component groups mentioned.

And others (who have listened to more stuff than everyone in this thread put together) have this to say: 

"Put it this way: I would rather have Oladra running a more modest system than have absolute top-end audio driven by a more off-the-shelf server. "

https://hifiplus.com/articles/antipodes-audio-oladra/

This is also a good read: 

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/higher-end-dacs

@mclinnguy 

If someone can’t hear or appreciate the difference between a purpose-built streamer and an off-the-shelf server, it’s a cue to step back and consider the bigger picture…their overall audio system philosophy.

Not every system is configured to reveal that level of nuance, and that’s perfectly fine. What really matters is alignment between the system and the listener’s goals.

And at the end of the day, we all have different priorities or simply at different stages in their audio journey 😊