Tube Pre and SS Power? Or the reverse?

Yes, 33 wpc is getting down there. I have always heard that tube watts are "stronger" or more powerful than SS watts. I figured this meant that there was a slight difference. My experience is nothing like that... it is like comparing completely different things... with completely different rules (of thumb). But ultimately, yes there is too little. But, in general,  tube watts are tremendously more powerful than solid state watts. I am sure the supporting transformers and such also make a difference. The kind of sound is completely different as well. Even if you get a really warm solid state amp, with great slam... you''ll still get much more nuanced bass with tubes. As you get more powerful ss vs tube amps you get very different benefits... they don't start sounding the same. A broad generalization of course. 

Exactly.

Gryphon ss watts are very powerful.

That was in fact my dilemma a few years ago - to go with VAC Avatar tube integrated or Gryphon Diablo 120 integrated. I chose the VAC, absolutely no regrets, but Gryphons are fine machines.

++++++++1 Tube preamps with solid state amplifiers, or all tube if your speakers are not difficult to drive. Also I always recommend buying the preamp first, as I've found it is the most important component in the chain; in my experience. Once you have an excellent preamp, you can add whatever amp(s) you prefer: tube, SS Class A, SS Class A/B, SS Class D.

I too am one who believes you can do much better than Macintosh gear, the below preamps are all direct to consumer; from companies that use only the highest available components in their build......saves 30% to 50% over a dealer supplied preamp.

After hearing more than a dozen preamps, I'd look into: Aric Audio Motherlode XL $6,875, Aric Audio Motherlode II $5,750, or Super 6SN7 $4,625 - Don Sachs/Lynn Olson Raven preamp (sold by Spatial Audio) $6,395 - Backert Labs Rhumba Extreme 1.4 (NOT the standard Rhumba) $8,500 - SupraTek 6SN7 Cabernet $4,000, Supratek 6SN7 Caberrnet DHT $4,500.

For disclosure I own the Aric Audio Motherlode XL preamp which is the best preamp I've ever heard, but the Don Sachs/Lynn Olson Raven preamp is a really close 2nd.....some may even prefer it to the Aric Audio.

All of the above preamps are 6SN7 tube based preamps, except the Backert Labs which is 12AU7 based preamp.

vthokie83

Some interesting ideas.

When first shopping at dealers for a system, I noticed that a)every dealer seemed to rep different brands, which made comparison shopping difficult, and b) every high end dealer seemed to have two things in common; they all used McIntosh amps to demo their systems, and they all used the Bluesound Vault to stream.

So now that i have an integrated Mac amp, I can't go out and just get a different preamp.  McIntosh is having a trade up deal so thats why I'm looking now and only looking at McIntosh.  While all the above may be true, I really didn't want to start all over.  Plus, I'd love to hear the gear before I shell out thousands.