Why in some instances does changing streamers makes a bigger difference?


Or, I should say, sometimes a better streamer can make a positive difference. I read about this YouTube video in another thread on Agon and felt it was consequential enough to deserve a separate consideration here.

https://youtu.be/k-nCEoRWHZ4?si=EB-YW-ZlwBC_cNQL

I found this perspective helpful in trying to explain both my limited experience with streamers, and more generally why things like cable changes and power management can be so important in digital music reproduction well beyond 1s and 0s.

Your thoughts and comments invited.

kn

knownothing

I watched the video and learned quite a few things. However, while it all made sense to me (based on my limited tech knowledge), I think it also might be fair to question if he is the definitive resource on why or why not there may be differences in the sound of streamers. Again - it all made sense to me.

In my own systems, I have T+A’s HV series DACs which are well regarded - and have built in streaming clients.  I currently source the DACs using their streaming client (though the G2 software leave a LOT to be desired).

As part of this story - I previously had the T+A DAC 200 (wonderful DAC!) sourced by the Auralic Aries G2 and Sirius processor before i upgraded the DAC. I tried the Auralic stack into the HV DAC (both USB and AES/EBU) and preferred the built in streaming client. In that comparison, the built in streaming client was a bit more transparent and information rich.

And yet, I am considering upgrading to a better streamer in one of my systems (likely an XACT S1 Evo). I won’t do so without an audition, but the T+A dealer acknowledges a performance gain at that level. 

It would stand to reason that the streaming client solution built in (fed by Ethernet with good hygiene) would have every advantage over an outboard streamer - would it not? 

Let me reiterate - I haven’t yet auditioned this solution as I’m attending to other issues (my room). But, if it is true there are differences, then perhaps the content author is directionally correct, but there may still be more to the story for some higher end streamers.  I plan to find out. 

@davide256 

You would think that unnecessary between good gear but between an Innuos Pulse and Holo Spring 3, I find the Intona reduces USB irritants.

On the contrary, I welcome your experienced/informed comments/suggestions. The DAC I plan to purchase is the inexpensive GARLUBIDOR DIVINITY DAC and it just so happens to have (2) I2S inputs and maybe, just maybe I may not have to purchase a Innuos USB Pulse Isolator and a USB audio cable if what I understand is the I2S cable coming from a streamer to the GARLUBIDOR DIVINITY DAC  has a very good ’hand shake’? And the proposed streamer will be a GALUBIDOR brand model also which I hope has a very good ’hand shake’ with the same brand DAC?

Forgive the use of the words ’hand shake’ as I have no other way of expressing what I’m trying to convey here.

Scroll down ’till you see the back of the unit showing the inputs.Thanks

Clocks and timing - Per the attached video. ’In modern systems the streamer does not control conversion time, data is buffered inside the dac. The dac converts using it’s own clock. Most modern dacs are not slaved to the source (streamer) clock or eternal clock. Timing ownership, lives inside the dac.’ 

If I had taken the time to view the video I would have come to a better understanding sooner. Thanks all.

@mgrif104 

It would stand to reason that the streaming client solution built in (fed by Ethernet with good hygiene) would have every advantage over an outboard streamer - would it not? 

If I am interpreting your statement properly, not necessarily. It depends on how much and what kind of noise the “streaming client solution built-in” is generating, what measures are taken to isolate that noise between sections and functions, and how any noise generated might be affecting the analog circuits in the built in DAC.  

On the other hand, physically separating electrical and EMR noise from the streamer function to a separate box then requires cables and cable connections that could expose the signal to every insult in the electrical environment between the separate streamer and the DAC, and also adds the potential for interacting with and degrading low level analog signals in adjacent cables.

This all comes down to design and implementation to reduce noise inside the all-in-one server/DAC solution.  If the one box solution sounds better to you, the design and implementation were successful at mitigating noise.  If not, it was less successful than a separate box plus cable(s) solution (in your rack at least).

So physically isolating the streamer in another box can reduce problems with EMR affecting analog circuits in the DAC output stages compared with a combined solution, but opens the streamer/DAC connection to electrical noise associated with external cabling.  Why better cables can sound better in many instances, and even, or especially, better digital cables can sound better.  It’s not the 1s and 0s, it’s the noise…

kn

@knownothing 

Good points and well taken. It appears the measures taken by T+A to reduce EMR in these particular units is significant - bordering on extreme. But there’s also much that’s been learned over the past few years in streamers intending to move along the state of the art. My units are from 2019. 

The DAC functions of these units is top notch. We’ll see if the streamer function is too. I’m guessing not quite so much so. I certainly agree it’s not the 1s and 0s.

Best,