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2020 update : JC Verdier La Platine

A recent encounter with a JC Verdier dealer as well as a recent Audiogon discussion thread led to the start of this thread. He was in my house updating my La Platine which had been in storage for ten years with thread and oil. While he has high regards for the deck, his newer clients nevertheless prefer a Techdas iii than an 'old' La Platine. Given the proliferation of expensive decks in the past dozen years, La Platine has become very much under-appreciated. 

It's clear to me that the influence of the La Platine is everywhere to be found. Specifically, the magnetic suspension system that was employed 30+ years ago. Even SOTA offers their newer decks with mag. lev. features. And if you read this review: https://www.callas-audio.nl/Callas%20Platine%20Mod%20Kit%20Review.pdf, the Continuum Caliburn uses the same concept, which was not acknowledged in Fremer's review, albeit with more sophisticated , and expensive, execution.

It is also clear to me that there is much misunderstanding of the workings of the La Platine. I for one have contributed to this. The motor of the La Platine, for example, has been much maligned. The thread drive is another aspect of the turntable that have been described as inferior. With regard to the motor and thread drive, I have been set straight by Chris @ct0517 and Lyubomir @lbelchev. Experimenting with the different types of silk threads, the tightness to the platter  and a renewed understanding of the soundness of the Philips motor have been rewarded with better dynamics and transparency. 

The funny thing is that during the past two years of re-engagement with audio, I have questioned ownership of every components in my arsenal except the La Platine. It has always been a keeper. I wonder if La Platine owners would contribute to celebrating this 'old' deck with tales, advice, and insights?

Cheers!
ledoux1238
dover
2,498 posts
 

@thekong 

I’ve heard at length the DD TT’s you mention.

Motors have been vastly improved since the 70’s/80’s, but more importantly in my view all those direct drives mentioned have error correction circuitry from the 70’s - lots of jitter, overshoot on speed correction. The computer power available today is vastly more powerful, quicker and more sophisticated in predicting speed issues.

Its really the antithesis of the Verdier design which has a loosely regulated power supply because the design relies more on inertia ( high mass ) driving through through any variations in speed, eg stylus drag.

Incidentally with my high mass platter - 26kg - thread drive I have recently cleaned up the house wiring. Because I pulled the system down, when I reassembled the system, when I set and tested the speed there is no difference whether the stylus is playing or not. Clean power can make a substantial difference to turntable performance.

thekong
251 posts
 

@Dover, thank you for the detailed reply! I really wish Audiogon has the like button :)

To be honest, I can’t really detect the effect of the speed correction, not some artifacts that I can know for sure is due to speed correction! I understand the SOTA Eclipse motor package can be use with (slow speed correction) or without speed correction. I may just get one to experiment myself! Thanks again !

lewm
14,669 posts
 

“Torque is too high…” That’s almost humorous.

lewm
14,669 posts
 

Dover, I take your point that modern solid state devices are superior in every way to what was available in the 70s, but it raises two questions: (1) Why is it that the Grand Prix Monaco TT, which boasts speed constancy down to 6 decimal places owing to its use of state of the art electronics, is not widely loved, or even usually mentioned on these pages as a top contender?  (Also, a friend with two very expensive systems that he keeps in France and Switzerland owned one only briefly and shared with me he never liked it much), and (2) how important are the developments of the last 40 years in terms of regulating a platter speed of 33.33 rpm?  I don't think we humans are that good in sorting out the speed with which error correction can occur in a DD TT and for that matter lately in a BD TT, where most modern BD TTs also use speed correction of some sort or other.  I think both vintage and modern DD TTs (and where do we draw the line between vintage and modern in this case?) were designed according to choices made by smart guys who designed them.  Some chose tight servo control, a la Technics, and some chose a looser servo (for want of a better term) that only goes into action when speed error exceeds a certain point, for example the Kenwood L07D which to some degree uses the weighted rim of its platter in a manner analogous to the use of a massive platter with a weak motor (Verdier or your own TT as examples) on a BD TT.  Then too, DD TTs with coreless motors (L07D, Pioneer Exclusive P3, Yamaha GT2000, Victor TT101) sound "different" to my ears than do DD TTs with iron core motors.  So, I would not throw all DD TTs into the same boat any more than I would do that with BD TTs, in describing their inherent characteristics. There's something for everyone to love.

ledoux1238 OP
420 posts
 

@lewn Your point about the difference between ‘tight’ and ‘loose’ DD motors is interesting. It certainly bears on the discussions of the previous posts regarding the  varies motor options for the Verdier, in particular, and BD in general - the  issue of servo vs non-servo in BD TT. And I tend to agree that the  precision with which a motor can regulate 33.3 rpm, with advanced technology, may not necessarily lead to better sound quality.
 

I have been following an Italian site, audio antiquary.com.There is now a beautifully refurbished Kenwood L07D mk 2 on sale. I know you have this TT, but mk1? And an even rarer Denon DP100 on sale as well. You mentioned that cordless vs iron core DD motors sound different. Would you say more on this?

 

@thekong Thank you for the link on the special motor. However, I do not have a FB account. And I tried to use my wife’s account, but was unable to see the actual motor with the link provided. 
 

@dover “when I reassembled the system, when I set and tested the speed there is no difference whether the stylus is playing or not. Clean power can make a substantial difference to turntable performance.” I assume your motor is the non-servo type, so no stylus drag detected? 

 

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