Take it on faith: A cease-and-desist letter to those who only believe in measurements


Faith is a firm belief in something for which there is no proof (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/faith). Faith is often considered to be distinct from and even contrary to science. I argue science is based on faith. Specifically, it is faith in the belief that measurements are always correct, and they alone can reveal the world around us. However, there is no evidence that this approach will always provide a correct and complete depiction of our environment.

I am not anti-science. In fact, I am all about science. I was a science major in college. I taught high school biology and chemistry. I employ science every day in my current career. I also use it to make decisions when it comes to audio, and I can point to a scientific basis behind my equipment decisions, speaker/listener locations and room treatment. I believe John Locke’s scientific method is a wonderful boon to mankind.  But although data may rule my life, I know that science has its limitations.

The scientific method is an empirical approach and relies on our eight senses or extensions thereof to measure phenomena, enabling us to better understand and control our environment. People who embrace this approach believe if something cannot be measured, it cannot exist. They have total faith in this approach and deny the credibility of others whose senses do not or cannot yield something in units. In essence, these disciples take it on faith that measurements are the only true way to make sense of the world. However, we just may not have developed the instrument that enables us to measure the event. Early digital is a good example of our senses superseding the limitations of our understanding of the technology and hence, our measurements. Other examples of this include our past beliefs that we could destroy mass, that the earth is flat, and the universe is not expanding. And cables and amplifiers all sound the same.

Others find their senses can reveal events that are not apparent to some and may not even be measurable. Some people can smell faint odors or feel a slight breeze that others cannot.  My wife can find a Petoskey stone on a beach out of thousands of rocks; I cannot see it even when I am standing over it. Different cables, fuses, amplifier topology, or cartridge design may or may not result in the same or even any data points and may or may not sound alike. But just because you cannot hear a difference nor measure a difference does not mean there is no difference. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, just as good sound may be in their ear.

Some of us have at least as much faith in our ears as we do in our REW software and associated hardware. I start room setup with acoustic theory and then confirm with measurements, but the final placement is always a result of what sounds most pleasing. I would not know how to determine speaker toe-in using a microphone.

While I will always have to trust my senses, I am not handicapped by relying solely on those that are associated with a number.

 “…not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted.” William Bruce Cameron, 1963

tcutter

I think you're right, OP, to recognize that measurements don't validate themselves—they require what we might call interpretive faith in the adequacy of our theoretical frameworks.

Let's consider the structure: A measurement only means something within a theoretical context that tells us (1) what we're measuring, (2) why this particular quantity matters, and (3) how to interpret the numerical result. 

But how do we know if that theoretical context itself is correct? After all, we have no "view from nowhere" to confirm that our theoretical schema actually carves reality at its joints. We can't step outside our conceptual frameworks to verify they correspond to reality-as-it-is-in-itself. Indeed, we learned from Heisenberg that those kinds of confirmations can't be done – we, the observer-participants, are part of the mix.

Your comments reminded me of the Duhem-Quine thesis: when measurements conflict with predictions, we face underdetermination—we can preserve theory by adjusting auxiliary hypotheses, or vice versa. The choice of what to revise involves commitments that transcend the measurements themselves.

I take it, OP, that you are pointing to something like this: scientists must have faith that their measurement practices track real features of the world, not merely that instruments produce consistent numbers. The leap from "my REW software outputs these frequency response curves" to "these curves represent the actual acoustic properties of my room" requires trusting that our theoretical apparatus (wave theory, Fourier analysis, transducer calibration assumptions) adequately maps reality.

Perhaps, OP, you overstate calling this "faith" in the religious sense—implying it's evidence-free. A better framing might be that it's not "faith" but  a "provisional commitment" –  to fallible frameworks that have proven pragmatically successful, which we hold with appropriate epistemic humility about their completeness. The faith isn't blind; it's a bet that inquiry converges, down the road, on pragmatic truth.

Great post!

yes

 Science begin as belief as any human activity... Belief is a better choice of word than faith here to describe the science endeavour as a starting point ...

But science grow with faith, if, over mere belief, we need values choices to evaluate the next direction and the end goal ...Beliefs are not powerful enough  to drive Reason  and wisdom and the will ....You can doubt beliefs, faith is an energy you feel in the heart not just a belief...A driving force...

 

Science cannot stay neutral...An atomic bomb is not a tool...We must have faith in ourselves to ban Atomic Bomb... Or to refuse to replace human with A.I.  

 

 

 

I think you’re right, OP, to recognize that measurements don’t validate themselves—they require what we might call interpretive faith in the adequacy of our theoretical frameworks.

Let’s consider the structure: A measurement only means something within a theoretical context that tells us (1) what we’re measuring, (2) why this particular quantity matters, and (3) how to interpret the numerical result. 

But how do we know if that theoretical context itself is correct? After all, we have no "view from nowhere" to confirm that our theoretical schema actually carves reality at its joints. We can’t step outside our conceptual frameworks to verify they correspond to reality-as-it-is-in-itself. Indeed, we learned from Heisenberg that those kinds of confirmations can’t be done – we, the observer-participants, are part of the mix.

Your comments reminded me of the Duhem-Quine thesis: when measurements conflict with predictions, we face underdetermination—we can preserve theory by adjusting auxiliary hypotheses, or vice versa. The choice of what to revise involves commitments that transcend the measurements themselves.

I take it, OP, that you are pointing to something like this: scientists must have faith that their measurement practices track real features of the world, not merely that instruments produce consistent numbers. The leap from "my REW software outputs these frequency response curves" to "these curves represent the actual acoustic properties of my room" requires trusting that our theoretical apparatus (wave theory, Fourier analysis, transducer calibration assumptions) adequately maps reality.

Perhaps, OP, you overstate calling this "faith" in the religious sense—implying it’s evidence-free. A better framing might be that it’s not "faith" but  a "provisional commitment" –  to fallible frameworks that have proven pragmatically successful, which we hold with appropriate epistemic humility about their completeness. The faith isn’t blind; it’s a bet that inquiry converges, down the road, on pragmatic truth.

I just posted this in another thread...

But it is justified to post it here : 

 

 

Feyman famously said: 

«Science is a culture of doubt. Religion is a culture of faith»

 

This is a simplistic stance ...

 

Feynman is right for sure  but forgot the other hidden  part:

 True mystics, unlike religious  zealots, are skeptics by method; and geniuses in science, unlike technocrats of science, are moved first, by faith in their reason and intuition and goal, last by rules.

it is why mystics are marginalized, put under control by zealots orthodox, or in jail or even tortured to death...

It is why technocrats defend orthodoxy in science...True great  scientists  are anything but orthodox and are often censored...

 

 The most surprising book i read at 20 was this one, a pure gem:

Alexis-Preyre, "the freedom of doubt " ...

 

 

Most skeptic ideologue dont even know what is doubt ....And its history ...Yes doubt is an act with a complex evolutive  history (from Pyrrho to Husserl by Descartes and Goethe and   by mystics of  Eastern and Western  schools ) ....Most people think they know what is doubting...They do not in most case especially nowadays with  many  scientists ideologues... ...

Only true scientist and true man of faith (mystics)  can manage beliefs and doubts together in them at the same time in the name of truth...

 

 

«Money talk louder than doubts»--Groucho Marx working for Pharmacool