DIY 2-way vs 3-way driver quandry
I currently run a 2-way set of stand speakers, rear ported, made with top Scanspeak Illuminator drivers and I find them to perform beyond the price I had to spend to buy/build them. They are a kit that is available from a US dealer, the NADAs, from a German published design. Cabs built by Lee Taylor. Drivers are the "7in" mid-woofer and the Be 1" tweeter. I love that they disappear in my room and can deliver a broad and concise stage. To my ears they are uncolored but TBH I have little if no comparisons in my area (Anchorage AK). Room is treated and prob a bit dead for many. I really don't detect any flaws. No they aren't full range. I use 2 SVS Pro (8in, 10in) subs. My system is on my profile. Music is varied but I stream Blues (old and new), classic rock / indie, prog rock, jazz.
For our new winter snow-bird house I bought a very similar, 2-way stand, rear ported set from a small boutique maker that uses the Revelator (one step down) mid driver, and a 1 in silk dome, wide dispersion tweeter from Scanspeak. Unknown model. Very similar source and power equipment in a relatively bright, larger, room. Price point new is about my all-in of the NADA DIY investment. I am not nearly as impressed with the fidelity, and the staging is not quite there. They do almost fully disappear on good recordings. But seem softer, mushier up top and the staging isn't as pinpoint or discrete. Tonally similar. OK, I have slighly depressed 4k and above hearing in my left ear and 64 yo "normal" hearing on the right (minor depression 6k and up, prob 12-14k limits). No I don't hear "glare", sibilance or harshness from the Be tweeter. I believe I'm capable as I heard those on cheaper AL dome tweeters in the past. To compensate for my ears I run a Lokius eq in each channel with the left a tad more boosted. Makes all the difference in my interpretation of the freqs, and tweaks the balance back to dead-center.
I will look to sell the new set and would like to undertake a DIY kit from Troels Gravesen who designs numerous sets, many featuring Scanspeak drivers. Yes, I will stick with this manufacturer to get as close to a similar sound in this build as the 2W NADAs. Id prefer to stick to his designs as there are sooooo many things to juggle and I'm familiar with his offerings.
Finally my question. His most similar kit uses the exact drivers as what I like in the NADAs, similar box, volume etc. Prob 95% chance as good or better. All kits I have and look at use high-ish end name brand XO components. If it isn't broke, don't fix it! But... if Im going to do this why not do it bigger and better. There is another 3-way kit that uses the Illuminator 3in mid above the same Illuminator series midwoofer mentioned. This of course moves the XO points away from the critical 2500-4500 range. But the only tweeter option is the Discovery series. It's maybe 2-3 spots below the Be. Yes its a silk dome, full featured tweeter model D2608/913000. He gives it high marks but I have questions for the group.
So I wonder and ask for thoughts on taking a chance to get a bit more SPL, and a true 3-way with the mids dedicated to an ostensibly fantastic mid driver but using a less expensive, different material based tweeter. Would you guess that my positive description of staging, concise placement, uncolored, airy sound will be compromised by the lesser tweeter OR will the selection of these 3-way drivers more than make up for it? Is the tweeter or the upper range of the midwoofer in my 2Ws responsible for most of my favorable experience and the highs are way less significant? Staging and disappearing are v high priority to me. But I can't now listen to less clarity and realistic definition and timbre.
No, unlike the 2W which gives a few tweeter options with appropriate small R differences in XO parameters, the 3W has only the one tweeter choice. Swapping means a different set of XO values and possibly cabinet alignment. Doing this myself is above my speaker building pay grade! Comments, recommendations, further investigations? Previous experience with similar issues or ideas on the, "theory" of letting the tweeter do only tweeter things. There's a very large school of thought that agonizing over the tweeter decision is over-rated too. Sorry for the long read but I know people always ask about: the room, amplification, genres...
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@deep_333 isn’t wrong... my additional observation is that a lot of folks there get sucked into sim results and seemingly spend more time arguing over them than actually listening to speakers. Still, the folks who actually know what they’re doing / talking about are more likely to be over at https://discourse.midwestaudio.club, or / and DIYAudio.com. I second building kits as-designed until you’re comfortable doing the designing / modding yourself. One last random observation about the different driver price tiers such as Scanspeak’s Illuminator, Revelator, Discovery, etc. Everything else being equal, the expensive series will probably confer a sonic advantage, but spending more isn’t necessarily the be-all and end-all. Trusting the designer is more important, and second-guessing his choices is often done at your own peril. The much-admired Kii Three is built around a Peerless midwoofer that costs $17. So, enclosure design and, in Kii’s case, DSP and onboard amplification matter at least as much as the drivers themselves.
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This is the Troels design with drivers used on the NADA. http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Illuminator-71.htm I am able to get to listen to the design in the link quite regularly in a familiar system and am profoundly impressed. These are the Speakers that have caused my own rethink about long term used Speakers. I am now going through the process of bringing new designs for speakers into the system. http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Illuminator-7751.htm
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@pindac indeed, the Illuninator 71 is my first instinct for the "equal or better" than the NADA. Same basic physical extent and uses same drivers. I will be doing his exact cabinets no matter what model I elect. My quandary was the Illuminator 71 vs the Ekta MkII. But as @pindac has also found, the Ekta 7751 uses all Illuminator drivers and accommodates the Be or soft dome tweeter. I'm leaning 7751 now. Its just money... and leaves little doubt to being pretty SOTA. And this 3W has increased sensitivity to 90db. I use 30w PP tube power so thats nice. Impedance min is 3 ohms and rather smooth. PM me if you learn something along your journey that helps. Decision point for me is about mid Dec to Jan. |
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