Anyone have experience with the PH-1000 and tube stage

Lewn

I believe I have a solution.  I ordered a resistor switch box which will cover the loads I need for my 4 cartridges, without having to open the Chinook.  But the really  low output MC require the highest gain on the SE which is 65 dB.  If I use an sut I would have to go down to 45 or 50 - requires opening the box.  My Soundsmiths don’t like the SUT.  At 65 dB I get some hiss (not terrible) from the Chinook (tubes are being driven hard).  Having done more research on the Steelhead I now think it might be the best fit for me.  It’s way different inside than the Chinook and a lot quieter.  I’d that your experience?  How “tubey” is it?  The Chinook is a little warm but not big lush tubes.  There’s a FET stage before the tubes.  I don’t care about the line stage so I guess I don’t need the mods you did.  Thoughts?

My guess is that the Steelhead uses a hybrid cascode at its phono inputs with the FET at the bottom and 6922 at the top. That’s one way to get a lot of gain. The RIAA filtering would follow that gain stage, but I don’t know how they (apparently) employ autoformers in the MC pathway. Like I said, the schematic is unavailable. As to the Chinook, have you removed the cover in order to examine the output coupling caps? And are they 30uF in value? If yes, then I’d guess the output stage of the phono only Chinook is like that of the Steelhead phono stage. After all, the Steelhead came first, and I suspect the Chinook was their effort to produce a lower cost phono only version. 

The caps are 30 uF in the Chinook. But no FETs or autotreansformers like in the STeelhead.t’s a pure tube gain unit.  I have the SE version that puts out up to 65 dB gain.  It’s somewhat noisy at that output with low output MC - even with my 86 dB speakers.  

After doing a lot of research I think the Steelhead is the bet fit for me.  What tubes do you use?  It comes with all EH tubes.

@ulcerdoc, have owned two chinooks and the steelhead. If you are running an MC cart you may want to consider the Technics 305 SUT into the MM stage of the phonopre. IF you want to upgrade the phono pre you'll need to get into a VTL TP 6.5 or an ARC REF 10 to really beat the Chinook. 

JohnSS

You’re a good reference for me because you owned both Chinooks and Steelhead.

I already have a Bob’s Devices Sky20 SUT.  I think that’s a fairly big step up fron the Technics 305.  I don’t particularly enjoy the sound using the SUT with low output MC’s on the Chinook so I have no desire to try other SUT.

The Chinook sounds really good even though it has a relatively primitive circuit compacted to the Steelhead (no SUT, autoformers, simple 4 x 6922 tube set. I have the SE edition that adds 65dB gain and at that level with low output MC I get the typical tube overdrive hiss out of both channels (typcal Chinook I understand).  It’s just a little annoying not really bad.  What I really hate about the Chinook is one set of inputs, simple gain stage and set it once and hope you don’t have to ever set it again inconvenience.  

A lot of people lump the Manley Chinook and Steelhead together because they share DNA, but they were never meant to compete with each other. EveAnna Manley designed them for two different customers and two different levels of analog obsession.

The Chinook was created to hit the sweet spot of serious vinyl playback without the cost or complexity of the true reference tier. When it launched, it went up against the usual mid-upper class contenders: Allnic H-1201/1202, Parasound JC3/JC3+, PS Audio Stellar Phono, Rogue Ares, PrimaLuna EVO 100, Sutherland 20/20 & Dos Locos, Zesto Andros 1.2, Herron VTPH-2A, and other “serious but sane” tube/solid-state phono stages.

Its job was simple: deliver the Manley tube sound, real MM/MC flexibility, low noise, and genuine engineering at a price most advanced listeners could reach.

The Steelhead, on the other hand, wasn’t built for that market at all. It’s Manley’s statement phono stage — a no-compromise design with autoformer gain, multiple MC inputs, front-panel everything, huge headroom, and a full reference-grade line stage. Its real competitors aren’t Chinook’s rivals; they’re the heavy hitters:

ARC Reference, Allnic H-3000/H-7000, Ypsilon VPS-100, Boulder, CH Precision P1, Doshi, Sutherland Phono Blocks, and other top-shelf, cost-no-object phono stages.

Chinook buyers are (as I was) upgrading from good gear and want tube magic plus flexibility. Steelhead buyers already run multi-arm tables, multi-kilobuck cartridges, and want total control and reference-level dynamics.  What I see is that you go from 70-80% what you can get from the cartridge to 90-95%  With the ARC ref 10 you maybe go to 98% and maybe need a new system - and I love the flexibility, ability to run more than one tonearm and the separate PSU with much lower noise floor.

EveAnna seems to have positioned them deliberately:

Chinook = high-end tube performance that’s accessible.

Steelhead = the destination for a more uncompromising listener with a whole lot more flexibility and convenience.

Two different tools. Two different customers. But same Manley DNA.

I happen to like the house sound.  I don’t have the time or inclination to audition 20 phonostages.  And diminishing returns tells me that there’s a lot of other things I’d rather have/do than a $42K phonostage for negligible increase in benefit in my system.

That all said I am still very interested in hearing why in your experience a Steelhead isn’t significantly better than a Chinook.