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Striking a balance between musicality and resolution

As my years and experience in this hobby continue to grow I notice a divergence between those seeking extreme resolution and detail from their music reproduction systems and those in search of maximum musicality.

In theory, high-end audio systems should provide more than garden variety stereo systems. In my view that means more detail and information should be heard from a high-end music reproduction system than one hears from ordinary HiFi stereo systems set ups. BUT is there such thing as too much resolution and detail in a stereo system’s sound presentation?

Some people feel that a less detailed presentation that is easier for your brain to process has better flow and provides more enjoyable listening.

So there is the dichotomy. Should one pay more to hear less? Can a frequency response performance that is curtailed at both frequency extremes be desired and praised?

Those that seek a “more musical” presentation usually point to their belief that that is how they hear live un-amplified acoustic music in the real world. In nature, high frequencies attenuate and decay with distance from the source and sound waves get absorbed, diffracted, reflected, and diffused by the environmental factors and landscapes; so they are not wrong in stating that in the real world the sound of music is less detailed and extended. The issue is that when we listen to our music reproduction systems at home we are not listening to live un-amplified music in a concert venue, but rather professionally produced audio recordings typically recorded with close-microphones techniques.

So the question is, do we want our systems to reproduce the sound on the commercial audio recordings accurately or does one want hear the sound the way one thinks that it should sound?

Lucky for me, I have enough systems at home that I have been able to design, set up, and tune them for different targeted resultant sound, sound presentation, and sound qualities. For instance, my OKTAN6 ultimate horn system is a dissecting microscope, my Pinnacle horn system aims at extreme musicality, and my WAAR reference system is a chameleon, which can be adjusted to sound exactly how you want it to sound in real-time.

My “test-bed” system takes on the sound character and sound qualities of the components in use and it is excellent for evaluating what new components have to offer or bring to the table in terms of sound qualities. But with the Acapella TW-1S ION plasma super-tweeters extending the high frequencies, the TBI Emperor subwoofers extending the low frequencies, and the highly detailed & nuanced Digital Audio Denmark AX24 DSD dac streaming HQPLAYER as the source, the “Test Bed” system is a highly resolving system.

As with everything else in life, is there a happy medium or compromise that gives you the best of those worlds? I believe that there is and that great music reproduction systems can be tuned to strike a balance between musicality and resolution. If one listens to the evolution of my OKTAN6 ultimate horn system for instance you can hear that the fine tuning is driving the sound in that direction.

So during last night’s listening session I adjusted the sound of my “Test Bed” system to a more musical sound presentation. The “Test Bed” system is always in flux so it allows me to experiment, explore, tweak, tune, and have fun with it.

Here is an audio recording from last night’s listening session that captures the revised sound presentation and conveys the sound qualities that exemplify a more organic sound versus a more delineated & resolved sound presentation:
 

The Way It Goes

 

carlos269
knownothing
1,824 posts
 

@carlos269 I just reread your passage quoted in @atmasphere’s recent post that says:

how do you explain that I’m able to achieve great sound on my audio recordings of my systems shared on YouTube and you cannot achieve even good audio quality on your system’s audio recordings? What do you think accounts for those differences

Whoa - who said anything about my “system’s audio recordings”?  What I said was this:

Listening to the YouTube recordings in either my main listening room at home (‘good’ room acoustics) or in the office (‘bad’ acoustics) provided little insight and certainly less than through either pair headphones I tried.  Compared to how I know my systems sound with good source material, I was left feeling “why bother”. And the combination of the room acoustics picked up in the recording, the compression of YouTube, and the flavors of my systems and the acoustics of my listening environments was too much for any reliable diagnostics, and certainly less enjoyable than playing from my own sources.  YMMV.
 

To be clear, I don’t record my system.  I have never posted any claims about my system based on recordings.  The YouTube recordings I was referring to are your recordings.  And when I listen to your recordings including your room effects on my system with my room effects combined with crappy YouTube compression there is no way that it’s useful to determine anything.  Furthermore, if I listen to those very same cuts played through my system in my room directly from source material, they sound good with involving soundstage, detail, dynamics, timbre and good tone.  In contrast, your recordings of those cuts don’t sound as good to me.  At least headphones limit one of those variables, my in-room effects, but even that‘s not diagnostic, and I would not base any final judgements on precisely how good one system or another sounds based on YouTubeTo be clear.  Differences, sure.  Better?  No way.  And better than YouTube recordings of other systems?  Are you even kidding me??

kn

 

rauliruegas
13,378 posts
 

Dear @carlos269   :

"  limiting oneself to the commercial recordings or trying to hear more of the recording…"

 

"" I want to hear something better than what was provided to me by the record labels. ""

 

Look, of course that you can hear " more " of the recording but your approach is really away form that " more " meaning BETTER quality performance levels because according your posts in this thread and in wbf what you are doing is manipulating the recording signal.

Now the best and better true quality performance levels from any recording is  MIMIC/sTAY TRUER TO THE RECORDING where any single and " simple " manipulation of the recording signal to " improve " it only can degrades the recording signal because to manipulate the recording signal that signal must pass through another stage/path where will be taking new addied noise/distortions and in that very short new path will lost the recording signal original integrity .

Fpr everywhere that you look your approach it's a LOSER improce/appoach no matter what. You just can't chage ( as you think ) the Facts and physisc laws.

 

 

In the other side:

 

""" THD figures would be meaningful for the drivers but would be misleading as a key performance indicator for my subs. ""

 

Yes, you are totally wrong here too because the subs are the MUSIC foundation in any room/system and if  your Wilson develops 10% THD then this is the minimum you have but you need too to add the other driver/room developed THD that maybe will puts that overall THD even higher., I can't know.

 

Now, if instead of those Wilson subs you owned the 160K Magico stand alone subs whole things be totally different because those Magico has lower than 0.5% THD, go figure¡

 

You are dead silence with me after my last 3-4 posts due that shows like this unequivocal facts where you can't argue against it and never will.

 

R.

carlos269's avatar
carlos269 OP
482 posts
 

@knownothing You have the distinction of being the first to say that the sound of my systems isn’t good on the audio recordings, and that’s ok. If you think that your system sounds better than my systems then more power to you. You can now go to bed happy that you have a good sounding system. I like the way my systems sound because they sound exactly the way that I have dialed them in and fine tuned them to sound. I don’t want my 34 different systems to all sound exactly the same, if they did then why have more than one, like facsimiles of each other, so I have fun and set a different target for each one. I’m almost not surprised that you find the sound of your system to be better to your ears and I suspects others also find the sound of their systems to better match their preferences as I’m unlike anyone else and what I’m interest in hearing  and achieving with my systems is unique to me. Sounds like we are both happy with what we have. If you cannot make use of audio recordings that’s also okay the vast majority of audiophiles cannot either. Myself and a few others have found a way to use the audio recordings and extract value from them. That is how the world goes about making use of audio recordings of one’s systems and everything else……as Henry Ford once said, “If you think that you can, or you think you can’t….you’re right”. Have a good evening.

rauliruegas
13,378 posts
 

Dear @toddalin  " Sorry but looking to your crossover diagram parts I can see that you are using those " boutique " caps as Adyn, Clarity, Mundorf and the like that I know very well and that all those are way inferior to the WIMA Fkp1 nad MKP 10 and those Mills resistors are inferior too to the Vishay Powertron.

 

I don't want to disturb you and is only to share my first hand experiences in crossover job.

 

No pun intented and only a comment about.

R.

carlos269's avatar
carlos269 OP
482 posts
 

It appears that I have a “super fan” that has become obsessed with me, who has been devoting his time to reading my posts on various audio forums, and like a remora or sucker fish wants to attach themselves to me for scraps of attention. I find it weird that this person is now begging for my attention. To this person I say, based on your clear lack of understanding of basic concepts, I decided to not engage with you and will not waste any of my time in responding to things that you obviously don’t understand. I hope that I have made myself clear. Move on. Contribute to threads with what you have achieved, and provide supporting evidence when possible. 

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