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Striking a balance between musicality and resolution

As my years and experience in this hobby continue to grow I notice a divergence between those seeking extreme resolution and detail from their music reproduction systems and those in search of maximum musicality.

In theory, high-end audio systems should provide more than garden variety stereo systems. In my view that means more detail and information should be heard from a high-end music reproduction system than one hears from ordinary HiFi stereo systems set ups. BUT is there such thing as too much resolution and detail in a stereo system’s sound presentation?

Some people feel that a less detailed presentation that is easier for your brain to process has better flow and provides more enjoyable listening.

So there is the dichotomy. Should one pay more to hear less? Can a frequency response performance that is curtailed at both frequency extremes be desired and praised?

Those that seek a “more musical” presentation usually point to their belief that that is how they hear live un-amplified acoustic music in the real world. In nature, high frequencies attenuate and decay with distance from the source and sound waves get absorbed, diffracted, reflected, and diffused by the environmental factors and landscapes; so they are not wrong in stating that in the real world the sound of music is less detailed and extended. The issue is that when we listen to our music reproduction systems at home we are not listening to live un-amplified music in a concert venue, but rather professionally produced audio recordings typically recorded with close-microphones techniques.

So the question is, do we want our systems to reproduce the sound on the commercial audio recordings accurately or does one want hear the sound the way one thinks that it should sound?

Lucky for me, I have enough systems at home that I have been able to design, set up, and tune them for different targeted resultant sound, sound presentation, and sound qualities. For instance, my OKTAN6 ultimate horn system is a dissecting microscope, my Pinnacle horn system aims at extreme musicality, and my WAAR reference system is a chameleon, which can be adjusted to sound exactly how you want it to sound in real-time.

My “test-bed” system takes on the sound character and sound qualities of the components in use and it is excellent for evaluating what new components have to offer or bring to the table in terms of sound qualities. But with the Acapella TW-1S ION plasma super-tweeters extending the high frequencies, the TBI Emperor subwoofers extending the low frequencies, and the highly detailed & nuanced Digital Audio Denmark AX24 DSD dac streaming HQPLAYER as the source, the “Test Bed” system is a highly resolving system.

As with everything else in life, is there a happy medium or compromise that gives you the best of those worlds? I believe that there is and that great music reproduction systems can be tuned to strike a balance between musicality and resolution. If one listens to the evolution of my OKTAN6 ultimate horn system for instance you can hear that the fine tuning is driving the sound in that direction.

So during last night’s listening session I adjusted the sound of my “Test Bed” system to a more musical sound presentation. The “Test Bed” system is always in flux so it allows me to experiment, explore, tweak, tune, and have fun with it.

Here is an audio recording from last night’s listening session that captures the revised sound presentation and conveys the sound qualities that exemplify a more organic sound versus a more delineated & resolved sound presentation:
 

The Way It Goes

 

carlos269
carlos269's avatar
carlos269 OP
467 posts
 

@cleeds don’t get bogged down by YouTube. It is the audio recordings that are used by knowledgeable people for analysis, diagnosis, and adjustments and not YouTube. You don’t have to upload your audio recordings to YouTube, you can use and share the raw WAV files. YouTube is just an easy and convenient way to share the audio recordings with others.

Did you listen to the audio recordings of home audio systems from Believe In High Fidelity? Those audio recordings were made by a studio professional using high-end microphones and high-end studio equipment. What did you think of the sound quality? Do you find those audio recordings more convincing and useful?

kerrybh
681 posts
 

@cleeds +1

rauliruegas
13,376 posts
 

Dear @carlos269  : You speak of ultimate room/system and unique way to do audio things but I can’t see that Ultimate when you have a weak in the low bass foundation of the MUSIC where the " composite " sound is full of those THD and youjust can’t avoid it even with words as " ultimate " that are only words.

 

The subs you are using normally are incar audio stereos and are competition of JL Audio that has around 6% THD in its home subs so yours could be in the 5% to 10%THD range that it’s not Ultimate.

In your Test bed system things are not better because the TIB subs has  a manufacturer spec of -9db FR response at 36hz.

 

All your " composite " sound is just colapsed like it or not and accept it or not. You can’t " win " against facts, words are only words and nothing more.

You present your self as the unique penultimate top of the top " audiophile " where ( even that you don’t post yet ) the other gentlemans are a " joke ". Good for you.

You can’t validate that " Ultimate " word but you want that the other gentlemans validate their systems when you have not almost nothing because MUSIC has by it self ACCURACY that’s why exist a pentagram and exist the harmonics and many other issues and your systems could be all what you want but accurated in that critical frequency range the more important range in that composite sound.

 

MUSIC start at instrument transient and the composite sound resides in the low bass foundation. Music halls breath at around 10hz.

I have no problem with your ultimate composite sound that’s in reality is false, at least for me. Yes ultimate has maybe different meaning for each one of us and for me your systems are faraway to be " ultimate "  as you brag about.

Good for you that don’t worry about me neither because are your systems, then from where comes that  ultimate system brag. I don’t care because it does not exist what you posted here when your premises are just out of that ultimate.

Resolution/musicality comes from accuracy or for you  the players play with no accuracy?

Just an opinion .

 

R.

carlos269's avatar
carlos269 OP
467 posts
 

@rauliruegas Judge my systems on sound and sound alone. It appears that you want to pick a fight and are not qualified to do so. You sneak in with “sorry to disturb you” asking for help and thanking me in advance and then you make strong statements on things that you don’t know enough about. If you want to engage with me any further post some audio recordings of your systems playing the same songs that I have posted here and let me and others hear the low “dust” that you speak of. Unless can provide evidence through audio recordings that you have assembled a good sounding system then I really can’t take you seriously. I don’t have time to waste with you if you are not confident enough to back up your writing with some audio. I have let you and others hear what I have achieved and it’s about time for you to stop typing and start providing some audio samples of your system playing some of those songs. If you are not going to be confident enough to let us hear where you coming from, then please don’t engage me any further. I don’t have time to waste with people like you, who make all types of statements and declarations while hiding behind the keyboard but lack the confidence and guts to let us hear what they feel so strongly about. Is time for you to put up or shut up.

Maybe I should have directed your attention to my Wilson Audio WAMM Series IV subwoofer towers that I use in my WAAR reference system…. As you are as clueless as they come when it comes to the  reproduction of low frequencies and that might have impressed you more, as you come across as superficial and lacking knowledge and substance.

mahgister's avatar
mahgister
15,051 posts
 

In acoustics there is no "taste" as concept...it is called "biases"...

Taste in music exist but must be educated, i educated my taste in music which was only my starting point and i enlarged my tastes from singular to plural...

To tune my room any taste was useless...We must become conscious of our biases and limitations...It is why i did not boasted about my  dedicated room as such which was a success  but about the concepts of acoustics i used  and i posted many times here many acoustics articles even deep books..

To pick my gear pieces synergy matter not so much  taste "per se"  (specs and type of gear, price matter  because i am on a tight budget unlike most here ) ..

Then to optimize my gear pieces,taste also was useless completely, mechanical, electrical and acoustical basics knowledge  was useful...

 To tune my system/room nothing was less useful than given  "tastes" in music or gear brand name or cost...taste is a starting point to begin with thats all... Called it biases which need to be educated by the learning process ..

To tune my system/room i used basic acoustics knowledge and then more sophisticated knowledge about timbre concept, resonator concept, psycho-acoustics concepts etc , this knowledge process increasing  learning curve  implied hearing attention  about the perceived and measured  parameters related to these acoustics concepts...

How do we act on these given parameters measured by REW  or  perceived by ears and correlated together?

We acted not guided by taste but by experiments using specific direction line given in many acoustics articles and books..

There is no taste related to the optimal ratio of absorption/reflection/diffusion function of your listening position related acoustics material content and geometry and dimensions and topology of the room, there is no taste in the way you modify mechanically as i did with resonators or as we can do with sophisticated DSP  only hearing increase learning curve...

Taste is for children or consumers or for music not for acoustics experience where  parameters measured or not are correlated to the  hearing factors implied...

 

 But read me right , tastes exist for me too as biases even in the acoustics process  but once i decided the acoustics process has ended function of my budget, experiments duration, and relative satisfaction i can called it "my taste" at the end of my learning curve...

Taste is a starting point and an end point not the process...

I trusted objective measures and subjective biased hearing in the correlation process learning curve..

Objectivist as subjectivist are gear focus, one group call the gear brand his taste the other group called his specs measurements the "truth"  about hearing qualities, the two groups ignore acoustics basic process and concept.. At best they consider this fundamental  acoustics process secondary , a cherry on their cake tasting... For me acoustics concepts are the cake, the gear is only the ingredients the cherry and the flour we can afford...

 What matter in audio is not the gear we are able to afford, anybody can buy something, but how to optimize it matter the most...

The optimization rules are the same for any system at any price related to specific constraints and specific design and synergy  ratio ...

 I dont trust my taste means i trusted the process by which it is educated at a higher level...

You are gifted, you are able with technological knowledge to modify or create some of your gear pieces. I optimized and modified some too. but i am not an engineer i focused more on acoustics than gear design...But be conscious that acoustics is no icing on a cake but half the job of creating system/ room qualitative experience...

 

 

@mahgister That was an interesting post. You state that you don’t trust your “taste”, which is how it sounds, and you don’t trust measurements, and you rely strictly on knowledge. What feedback mechanism do you use to ensure that your knowledge is correctly applied if you don’t use the sound or the measurements. If by “taste” you don’t mean sound corrected, then what sound are you desiring or targeting that isn’t a “taste”? If your answer is “what it should be”, the what should it be? And how do know that? 

 

 

 
 

 

 

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