Can you hear bit rate?


Almost all the music I listen to these days is from Roon and often a "station" created from an artist I like.  So I click on say Melody Gardot and Roon start randomly picking similar jazz music.  All great.

As Roon finds new tracks I get stuff rom Qobuz or Tidal and in a variety of bit rates.  from 44.1/16 to I think 96kHz/24.  Sometimes I think "wow that sounds great" and the source material is high res, other times it is not.  

I've typed here for a while that around the turn of the century DAC's have gotten much better at paying Redbook (44.1/16) music than before, so that the difference in sound quality is almost gone.  In addition I use Roon to upsample everything to 176 or 192 kHz.  

I'm finding the question of source depth, at least with PCM, kind of irrelevant these days.   What do you think? 

 

erik_squires

@erik_squires 

Bit rate = bit depth * number of channels * sample rate

It would hardly challenge anyone with two working ears to tell the difference between mono and 2-channel stereo (double the bit rate).

Equally it is blindingly obvious when surround sound and immersive sound come into play.  But of course, you need more hardware for that.  Music-centered magazines like Gramophone extol the quality of some immersive recordings, which are also over-represented at Grammy awards.  Equipment-focused magazines like TAS and Stereophile pin 2-channel to their mastheads and resolutely ignore these advances in sound quality, encouraging their readers to spend thousands on power cords instead.

@richardbrand 

Immersive sound is attractive, but how will it avoid the fate of quadraphonic sound in the 70s?

 

@erik_squires wrote:

So, apologies, I meant to ask: Can you hear differences as the sample rate or bit depth changes?  

That's actually how I understood it (falsely, going by your OP), but thanks for clarifying. With changes in bit depth and sample rate (one usually follows the other) there appears to be changes in the mastering as well (here as well: one usually follows the other), so I guess it comes down to this: do I appreciate the overall outcome of high-res versions over their Red Book iteration(s)? Well, it depends. Years ago, with the exception of the Norwegian 2L label, I often if not mostly had a preference for the CD versions in finding quite a few high-res dittos to be dynamically stale and downright flat sounding. Today I still prefer many Red Book versions, but there are an increasing number of great sounding remastered high-res titles as well (mostly compared through Qobuz). All told though I can't say for certain whether my sonic preference for a given title comes down to its mastering and/or higher bit depth and sample rate.

@richardbrand wrote:

Equipment-focused magazines like TAS and Stereophile pin 2-channel to their mastheads and resolutely ignore these advances in sound quality [...]

Whether it leads, in more absolute terms, to an advancement in sound quality with immersive recordings through multichannel setups is debatable, certainly from my chair. There are many variables involved comparing a 2-channel setup to an immersive ditto, and likely it means comparing two completely different setups where the core 2-channel audio will be the deciding factor by the end of the day. 

@devinplombier 

Immersive sound is attractive, but how will it avoid the fate of quadraphonic sound in the 70s?

Quadraphonic sound in the 70s would mainly have been based on records, and really did not offer much in the way of channel separation.  It was only the advent of SACD some 25 years ago that could deliver much better than CD sound and up to 5.1 channels.  In other words, light years ahead of quadraphonic.  Still very popular for classical music in Europe and Japan, where it was invented, SACD was very poorly marketed in the US

I moved to SACD when the Gramophone magazine issued its reviewers with Marantz universal disk players which handled CD, SACD and DVD.  It did not cost me much to add two rear "ambience" channels, which I drove with an old Quad (the manufacturer!) 2-channel amplifier. I have never bothered with a central front speaker because my main speakers emulate point sources of sound and have excellent imaging.

Nowadays not all universal disk players include SACD, mainly because of manufacturer’s rivalry, for example Panasonic is loath to licence Sony stuff!.  But they all include Blu-ray and thanks to 2L.no, can play Pure Audio Blu-ray disks with all sorts of high-resolution tracks, including Dolby Atmos.

Now just about every Home Theatre installation has a Blu-ray player and multiple audio channels.  The only thing people have to actually buy to get immersive sound is the silver disks, which are much cheaper than new records.

No doubt in the next few years, streaming services will have the bandwidth (the OP’s bit rate) to deliver high quality immersive sound.

New surround sound recordings have already been available using the same SACD media for 25 years.  Today there's over 6,000 classical SACDs listed by Presto. You can’t say that for quadraphonic.