Realism in instruments how to achieve it?


Hi all,

Based on the recommendations of this forum I added a BAT VK3i Preamp to my system a few months ago and it lifted my whole system, before that I was going from SMSL RAW MDA1 DAC directly to Apollon Purifi Amp, now the BAT is in between and it gave me that warmth and analog sound I was looking for. Frank Sinatra, Elvis, Nat King Cole all sound real and "In the Room" feeling. On the analog side which I don't use as often I added a Lector tube phono preamp and it made a massive impact more than on the digital side. The thing I noticed on the digital side is that voices mainly sound so real more than instruments which have body and textures but not yet reaches that realism I feel from hearing voices mainly and when I play a record instruments are just more live and real. Guitars specifically sound much better with the BAT preamp in the signal but other instruments like in classical symphonies are not quite there yet.

Is it the speakers that gives that realism to instruments?

I cycle between Totem Arro and Sonus Faber Grand Piano Home speakers. Also, have a JBL 530 in storage but needs a speaker stand.

Two upgrade path I thought of: Push pull power tube amp or a single ended amp. The issue that my setup is in a modest bedroom and heat is a concern. Another thing I thought to add is a R2R DAC with a tube buffer like the upcoming Fiio Warmer Dac.

Another upgrade I considered is going for British bookshelf speakers like Spendor, Harbeth, Graham Audio.

What do you think is that realism in instruments can be achieved more with speakers or with a tube amp in the chain? should I just be pleased with what I have and ignore upgrades for now?

Thanks and sorry for the long post.

sheri2022

@sheri2022  

I’m assuming you have heard real instruments and know what they sound like as a reference.....

 

  1. speakers need to fit the room for sure.  Beyond specifications, placement relative to rear wall and corners helps determine actual bass extension in a particular room.
  2. Smaller speakers even Totem Arro will never be full range down to 20-30 hz even in smaller rooms.  Consider integrating a powered sub or two to fill in the lower end as needed in lieu of larger more full range speakers to start with.   If buying new speakers, do the homework up front to check measurements or specs for how full range a speaker is or not compared to what you have to avoid a change that does not solve the problem.  Even larger speakers may or may not be full range. Full range and relatively flat response is what you want to start with, then DSP from there as needed.    You want extension down to 30hz before significant rolloff for most music, lower if listening to electronic music or pipe organs.  Powered subs fill in the gap if needed, which is almost always the case to some degree with smaller speakers..   Good luck!
  3. In this day and age I always  advise using DSP to adjust for room acoustics, including any "boominess" as needed first and then tweak further to personal preference.  I use Roon DSP for this personally since it is already included in Roon, but many good options out there.  Stream white noise and measure with a sound meter app on your device of choice to see how your room is responding both before applying DSP and after.  Boomy bass obscures detail in teh midrange, so getting a handle on that should be task #1.  Different placement may help.  DSP  applied properly can probably handle it.  I have same problem with any speakers in my family room, Sonus Faber or others.   Suspended plywood floors are often a big culprit.   Isolation under speakers can help but I believe DSP is more flexible and  does teh best job when needed.
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The most stand out item is your speakers. Those Sonus Faber give you the natural warmth. But the Sonus Faber of that era were far less detailed than those of today. I don't remember exactly when the switchover was maybe 10 - 12 years ago they went through a major upgrade to all their speaker lines adding a level of detail and realism while not loosing the warmth and naturalness of the presentation. 

Of course all components contribute to the ultimate sound. But I would recommend as a first step upgrade you Sonus Faber speakers to more contemporary ones that are appropriate to your space. That may be all you need to do. But re-assess after the new speakers are broken in, and you marvel at how great they sound for a few hundred hours. 

Well, the answer to your question is, "all the above."  Or better yet, a combination of all the above.  You know what kind of sound you like, now the challenge for you is to conduct due diligence through experimentation until you achieve that sound.  Heck, it could be nothing more than your cabling that’s holding you back.  Happy listening.      

Refine your point of reference for how instruments sound.

Is there a symphonic hall, performing arts, etc venues near where you live?

Go and sit close to an orchestra in one of them. Or sit up front when a wind ensemble’s playing, let that clarinet player or sax player get close.

If i went to town on my Yamaha grand with you sitting 4 feet away, i guarantee you won’t be sitting too close if you are the Diana Krall @60db type of listener.

Eitherway, when you come back home, you will realize that your small closet sized room and these type of speakers you are thinking of are just not going to cut it.

If you have the room and the cash, some of the bigger Avantgarde systems (with the big subs) or a Daniel Hertz M1 (from Levinson), etc, etc might get closer to doing it some justice. But, you’d need the cash and some room for such systems.

In fact, I can't think of anything that will work in a small room.

For your small room, just lower your expectations and learn to live with it.

 

Is it the speakers that gives that realism to instruments?

I cycle between Totem Arro and Sonus Faber Grand Piano Home speakers. Also, have a JBL 530 in storage but needs a speaker stand.

Another upgrade I considered is going for British bookshelf speakers like Spendor, Harbeth, Graham Audio.