Is ASR for real, or is it only for those sub $1k or even sub $2K?


I did some browsing on the forum and it seems like most don't own very expensive gears.  Most of them own mostly sub 1K or 2K gears.  

I recently ask about feedback on the Polk R700 but after about a month with no responds.  I did a search "ASR Polk R700", with all but one poster which actually owned a pair.  Most of them would point you to some measurement and some theoretical discussion but non actually own a pair.

I also looked at a few posts on budget speakers such as the Kef Q7 or Polk R600, but I didn't see any actual owners responding.  

I don't mean to knock on them but ASR seems like a lot of hype but very little substance.

andy2

The paper i recommend is the slides in the second position...

All the articles are interesting :

https://www.temporalcoherence.nl/index.php/en/pyra

 

 

I don’t see any ideological marketing from ASR reflected in these papers.

I never said that these papers attacked Amir ASR directly as such (save Kunchur rebuttal of Amir which go to the core problem anyway)   they described the concepts about hearing theory (non linear time domain of our hearing) and the unsatisfied necessary  conditions for the application of Fourier theory in design (Van Maanen ) or in hearing theory Itself (Kunchur and the others) which facts  discredited Amir proposal of his measures as anything else than SOME specs verification  assessing good or bad design  anything else proposing these measures as the standard to determine S.Q.  is ideology and marketing  not science  ...

 Hearing theory rule acoustics(psycho-acoustics) and acoustics concepts, to begin with & at the end, rules audio engineering...Not the reverse ...devil

Example: Amplifiers, speakers and hearing aids design, dacs etc must takes into account how we hear sound and interpret phenomena to be improved ...

 

these are wise words:

What happens in science is that there are new findings and they reach reliability over time and that gets pushed down into engineering where there is a practical application. It takes time and it is proper to have "epistemic humility" as I mentioned above meaning healthy but not dogmatic skepticism.

Good night ...

 

@mahgister OK, good night! But it's still baffling or at least poorly articulated. Take this:

which facts  discredited Amir proposal of his measures as anything else than SOME specs verification  assessing good or bad design  anything else proposing these measures as the standard to determine S.Q.  is ideology and marketing  not science  ...

So maybe you are saying with your capitalized "SOME" that Amir is not fully quantifying what is possible for audio equipment design? Maybe, sure, but what is the alternative? We just don't have a design or testing methodology that shows any particular new design pathways other than, well, it might be valuable to use higher sampling rates than the Nyquist theory claims?

I still don't see any there there... Per my final paragraph, we just have to wait and be mildly skeptical. If there is a way to better use "Hearing theory rule acoustics..." we don't have any model yet. There's no ideology or marketing (which you are using incorrectly since ASR doesn't sell anything), just cautious skepticism.

There’s no ideology or marketing (which you are using incorrectly since ASR doesn’t sell anything), just cautious skepticism.

@mahgister is correct. You can quibble over whether "ideology or marketing" are quite the right words to describe what they are doing, but clearly it isn’t science.

Ehhh, there are reviews and they involve some audio science, but fair enough!

It is not an impenetrable mystery  to not confuse and distinguish the use of certain tools with scientific activity as such.(marketing context is not science context)

It is not a mystery to note that Amir proposes more than useful measurements for all, to which I have no objection; but when Amir claims conflate his measurements of certain aspects of electronic design as the only objective and exhaustive description of acoustic perception and the process of qualification and interpretation of qualias, it  become an ideological and not a scientific act.

If we analyze the roots of Amir’s thought as Kunchur did in his critique, we notice his misunderstanding of the foundations of psycho-acoustics and the meaning of  the mathematical tools used (well explained by Van Maanen concretely in design questions articles) . In other words, Amir presupposes a theory of hearing subordinated to insufficient tools then a false theory of hearing and more just a non ecological theory of hearing.

 

When you said that we have no model of hearing now with the right mathematical tools you are right and you repeated  Van Maanen points.

When you claim that there is more than marketing and interesting verification of design specs by measures in ASR you are wrong because you diplomatically forget or put under the rug  their ideology : hearing main problem  is already solved , our technology  solved it, all there is to do with human perception is to eliminate it from the straight road ahead of us with the "rightful" set of measures we already have here in ASR .

Kunchur is less diplomatic calling Amir a "guru" but there is truth here in this qualification ....I call him more politely a marketer of ASR.

i am interested by hearing theory which is always a deep mystery for science in spite of technological success, like consciousness mystery escape science in spite of LLM success save for the marketers in need of money and reputation. Wolfram just declared  human consciousness is only the result of the Ruliad computation...

Then Amir proposal is not just pure acoustics/psycho-acoustics ignorance  as Kunchur easily demonstrated or Van Maanen,  it is  the reflection of the ideology  that is dominating our world right now. it is a good idea to replace old audiophiles site as the only trustful to pick gear and evaluating it. I had nothing against Amir marketing and measure, i am against calling this "science". Truth matter.

 

So maybe you are saying with your capitalized "SOME" that Amir is not fully quantifying what is possible for audio equipment design? Maybe, sure, but what is the alternative? We just don’t have a design or testing methodology that shows any particular new design pathways other than, well, it might be valuable to use higher sampling rates than the Nyquist theory claims?

I still don’t see any there there... Per my final paragraph, we just have to wait and be mildly skeptical. If there is a way to better use "Hearing theory rule acoustics..." we don’t have any model yet. There’s no ideology or marketing (which you are using incorrectly since ASR doesn’t sell anything), just cautious skepticism.