Is ASR for real, or is it only for those sub $1k or even sub $2K?

A critic on details of the experience and his reinterpretation in a larger context dont negate it...

 Their one page critic do not invalidate the original experiment of M. and O.  completely but ask for a reinterpretation of the way the human hearing work in his own time domain  in a way difficult to describe by standard Fourier method, they ask for more refined experiments...

The others articles i quoted all of them, not only Magnasco and Oppenheim. goes toward an ecological theory of hearing...

It is like throwing the baby with the spoiled waters..

But at least i see you are serious...

It is the first time someone proves to me that he read the article.. 

«we demonstrate
that the experiment designed and implemented in the original article was ill-chosen to test Fourier uncertainty in human hearing»

In their own word they dont criticize the main thesis but the way the experiment were conducted and ask for more... Thats all .. I knew this article by the way ...Science goes from experiments to new  experiments ... This dont means that human hearing is understood now and under the power of the Fourier mapping and reducible to it...

 

Now to understand what i spoke about you must investigate the difference between an ecological theory of hearing and a non ecological theory of hearing...

Here an article to begin somewhere :

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/267327268_The_Body-Image_Theory_of_Sound_An_Ecological_Approach_to_Speech_and_Music

 

 

 

@mahgister I’m very serious. For instance, Fourier uncertainty has been partially debunked as leading to a discounting of FFTs for analyzing signals due to nonlinear behavior in human hearing:

https://arxiv.org/abs/1501.06890

More, FFTs do a fine job for examining temporal behavior. Fast time domain events manifest as high frequency spray in the frequency domain.

So, back to my specific question: give me one testable claim that contradicts some analysis by Amir.

 

 

@mahgister But even if any of that is true, does it mean that ASR measurements are flawed? After all, no company producing audio technologies has access to special time-of-arrival analysis systems that they can then use to build completely novel DACs, amps, etc. that exceed the standard methods. The current best-of-breed technologies are based on solid engineering principles of reducing noise and distortion in achieving their goals.

So, once again, give me a specific testable claim that shows a specific flaw in ASR's test methodology.

I just came up with one!

Let's say that human hearing exceeds Fourier Uncertainty due to nonlinear cochlear structure and that this does actually mean that FFTs are not sufficient for characterizing the transfer function of devices (contrary to the debunk paper). In that case, it should be easy (hah hah hah) to show that certain fast temporal signals are discernible by highly discerning musicians and whatnot. More, the FFTs are not able to predict that.

Soooooo, all we need to do is prove this is the case. For equipment design we need a new paradigm that, well, preserves the original signal as well as possible both WRT general noise/distortion and this new Fourier Uncertainty temporal phenomenon.

That is all new work, however, and doesn't really have anything to do with ASR testing!

You dont understand what i say at all...

I never said that Amir is wrong about measuring any specs as verification of  a design well executed or not...

Read this two times please...

I said that Amir theory about audio reducing all acoustical experience  to his measures is an ideology...

measures had meanings in a hearing theory context...

They had no meaning in the absolute...

Amir sell an ideology to make his site the only one "scientific"...

It is a false claim...

Acoustics parameters are all interpreted in some theoretical context about hearing ...

 Amir claim that all about hearing is already known and all audiophile claims are bullshit...

Kunchur say no...

All the scientists i quoted said no...

 The fact than one experiment can be criticized do not invalidate the thesis no more than kunchur alleged errors in measuring cables  invalidated his claim about hearing...

 You asked me this question three or four times...

my answer is very clear... I dont spoke about details  or errors or flaws in Amir measuring tools and results...( i am not competent enough to point to that  anyway ask Kunchur he already answered to your question in the quote above and in his text in 5 points... Why do you act as if i had not answer to you ?

I contested his general interpretation of his measures,  i do not  allege flaws  in his measures...(Kunchur can do it and did it  not me) 

Kunchur answer about the flaw:

«The temporal (time) resolution of the auditory system has no direct connection with 1/f (reciprocal of frequency). Mr. Majidimehr mixes the two. Humans can detect a time differencen between left and right ears of 10 microseconds at a frequency of 900 Hz. This time is 100 times shorter than 1/f ~1 millisecond. This has been known for over half a century5,6»

 Why is this such?

It is because human hearing lives in his own time NON LINEAR  dimension created by his evolutive history with sound...

It is call an ecological theory of hearing...

Read the articles above instead of asking me a  question already answered by me and by all the others scientist together clearly ...

 

@mahgister But even if any of that is true, does it mean that ASR measurements are flawed? After all, no company producing audio technologies has access to special time-of-arrival analysis systems that they can then use to build completely novel DACs, amps, etc. that exceed the standard methods. The current best-of-breed technologies are based on solid engineering principles of reducing noise and distortion in achieving their goals.

So, once again, give me a specific testable claim that shows a specific flaw in ASR’s test methodology.

 

@mahgister It's all terribly vague to me...I don't know that Amir is selling an ideology or that he believes he is the only one who is scientific. He measures gear and ranks them. Often their differences are beyond audible according to most theories and experimental results. He admits as much.

Can you give me a hyperlink to the Kunchur paper in question? Kunchur seems like a crank based on his fatally flawed work on cables, but I'll take a look. I can add it to the database!