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2020 update : JC Verdier La Platine

A recent encounter with a JC Verdier dealer as well as a recent Audiogon discussion thread led to the start of this thread. He was in my house updating my La Platine which had been in storage for ten years with thread and oil. While he has high regards for the deck, his newer clients nevertheless prefer a Techdas iii than an 'old' La Platine. Given the proliferation of expensive decks in the past dozen years, La Platine has become very much under-appreciated. 

It's clear to me that the influence of the La Platine is everywhere to be found. Specifically, the magnetic suspension system that was employed 30+ years ago. Even SOTA offers their newer decks with mag. lev. features. And if you read this review: https://www.callas-audio.nl/Callas%20Platine%20Mod%20Kit%20Review.pdf, the Continuum Caliburn uses the same concept, which was not acknowledged in Fremer's review, albeit with more sophisticated , and expensive, execution.

It is also clear to me that there is much misunderstanding of the workings of the La Platine. I for one have contributed to this. The motor of the La Platine, for example, has been much maligned. The thread drive is another aspect of the turntable that have been described as inferior. With regard to the motor and thread drive, I have been set straight by Chris @ct0517 and Lyubomir @lbelchev. Experimenting with the different types of silk threads, the tightness to the platter  and a renewed understanding of the soundness of the Philips motor have been rewarded with better dynamics and transparency. 

The funny thing is that during the past two years of re-engagement with audio, I have questioned ownership of every components in my arsenal except the La Platine. It has always been a keeper. I wonder if La Platine owners would contribute to celebrating this 'old' deck with tales, advice, and insights?

Cheers!
ledoux1238
thekong
251 posts
 

@ledoux1238

 

I believe the main arguments for using the ball are 1. To ground the platter, so the vibration at the platter, created by the cartridge track the record grooves etc. , could be drained to the plinth. 2. To keep the platter at exactly the same height. Since no platter could be 100% perfectly balanced, it may wobble microscopically if it is just floating on the magnetic repulsion without the ball.

 

As far as reducing the magnetic repulsion by using the ball, I think it all depends how high you adjust the spindle. If the ball is just barely touching the spindle, I think the reduction will be minimal, maybe a couple of lbs! As a reference, according to Michael Fremer’s review, the Continuum Caliburn, using a similar magnetic floating main bearing as the La Platine (but with a fixed spindle), the contact pressure between the ball and the thrust plate was around 6 pounds (for an 84 lbs platter).

 

I do find the bass cleaner and more tuneful when using the ball! Imaging is also slightly more focused. 

dover
2,498 posts
 

@thekong @mr_gray 

I used the ball.

I used a dial gauge resting on the platter so that when I raised the spindle with the ball I only raised the platter by 1/1000 of an inch as measured by the dial gauge.

I would expect that with such minimal movement the weight on the ball in my circumstance was probably well under 1lb let alone 6. The key is minimal movement, you just want the ball to touch and no more so you are grounding the platter, but carrying minimal weight on the ball - the less the better.

Soundwise I preferred the ball, I used a ball supplied by Verdier, sounding a little more incisive, grounded with no downsides.

You can't weaken the magnetic repulsion, the platter settles where it settles and that's it. To separate the magnets and reduce the repulsion you would have to raise the platter with the ball by some distance, at which point you have destroyed the whole idea of the design.

thekong
251 posts
 

 

@dover , yes, I think a dial gauge would be the best option, I probably should get one! Without it, what I do is when I get close to the point where the ball touches the platter, I would turn the screw in steps as little as I could, probably around 5-10° per step. After each turn I would press on the platter with my hand to feel whether the platter would dropped down a little. I did this until I couldn’t feel the platter dropping. 

mr_gray
188 posts
 

@dover ​​​​@thekong thankyou.  i appreciate your words here.  this is very helpful.  i may introduce the ball although i am very happy with what i have.

i have changed to Baerwald today (IEC) and i really like it.  so many good suggestions on the Galibier website and of course also here.  @dover you in particular have really trodden the path and i appreciate you sharing your thoughts here.

ledoux1238 OP
421 posts
 

Regarding the use of the ball, I understand the explanation by @thekong. However, I am still not quite convinced. It is true that magnetic force would experience fluctuations, hence a rotating platter using magnetic repulsion would experience some degree of wobble. An air bearing would also experience the same due to the fluctuation created by the pump. But inserting a ball in contact with the platter introduces a pin connection. Depending on the surface of the ball bearing, which  will also have some degree on imperfection, it will create its own fluctuation, another form of chatter. It is this part that  I do not quite understand. 

Using the ball bearing as an energy sink, draining away excess energy caused by the interaction of stylus / vinyl groove and the continuous changing wavelengths, is a very well known argument. However, given its 16 kg weight and the inertia, how much energy will be transmitted from stylus to bearing? And given that the Continuum platter is even heavier at 84 lb =38.102 kg, and the energy sink idea still holds for that TT, I must be missing something!!!

My apologies for being thick as a log on this one. I have the sense that some basic physical principles seem to have been side stepped in favor of hifi jargon? 

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