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Yes, the threshold for hearing audible phase shift on an analog equalizer can change significantly depending on the audio system and listening environment

. The audibility of the EQ's phase shift is influenced by factors beyond the EQ itself, including room acoustics, speaker design, playback volume, and the complexity of the audio material. 

How the audio system affects audibility

Room acoustics

  • Acoustic masking: In a typical listening room, sound reflections from walls, ceilings, and other surfaces create a complex web of constructive and destructive interference (a "phase soup"). This ambient phase distortion is far greater than what an analog EQ introduces, effectively masking the more subtle EQ-induced shifts.
  • Threshold shift: Because our ears are evolutionarily adapted to filter out the natural phase shifts caused by environmental reflections, the audible threshold for an EQ's phase shift is much higher in a normal room compared to a controlled, anechoic (echo-free) environment. 

Loudspeakers

  • Crossover effects: The crossovers in multi-driver speakers are a major source of phase shifts, as different frequencies are routed to different drivers (woofers, tweeters). The phase shifts caused by a speaker's own crossovers can easily dominate and obscure any shifts introduced by an external EQ. This is less of an issue with headphones or single-driver speakers.
  • Driver alignment: In multi-driver speakers, if the drivers are not perfectly time-aligned, it can create additional, audible phase distortion. Some high-end speakers, for instance, are designed to have all frequencies leave at the same time to ensure better phase coherence. 

Playback volume

  • Audibility increases with volume: Studies show that phase effects, particularly in the lower frequencies, become more noticeable at higher sound pressure levels (SPLs). If you are listening at low volumes, phase shifts are less likely to be audible, but they may become detectable when listening at higher, more intense levels. 

Headphones vs. speakers

  • Headphones offer higher sensitivity: Controlled studies have shown that phase distortion is more detectable on headphones than on loudspeakers in a normal room. Without the masking effect of a reflective room, the subtle changes introduced by an EQ's phase shift become more apparent. 

Complexity of the audio material

  • Musical content vs. test signals: Phase shift is generally inaudible on complex musical and speech signals. It is most easily detected with specific, simple test signals, such as square waves or tone bursts, and only under very controlled conditions. A phase shift that is obvious with a simple test tone may be completely lost in a dense mix. 

EQ-related factors that remain constant

While the audible threshold changes, the physical phase shift caused by a given analog EQ remains constant regardless of the audio system. The EQ's circuit design dictates the filter's minimum phase characteristics, which means the amplitude and phase response are inherently linked. What changes is the listener's ability to perceive that shift based on the overall context of the playback chain. 

tlcocks

You need to be very specific about how you task the job because AI may not interpret things as you do.

Here is an example of AI providing the wrong answer because it is misinterpreting the comment.

I am not concerned about the price for the subscription, but rather the price of the streaming equipment itself and as we know, audio streamers are far more expensive than video streamers.

BTW, in both cases the task is to compare the top ten streaming devices of both types, and there is no mention of these top ten.

Compare the prices of the top ten audio streamers to the top ten video streamers and explain the reasons for any differences in prices.

 

There is a clear difference in the pricing between audio and video streaming services, with video streaming being generally more expensive. Here is a comparison of the prices for the top services in each category and an explanation for the price discrepancy.

 

 

Audio Streaming Services

 

The top audio streaming services typically offer individual ad-free plans in a similar price range, with some variation for higher-quality audio or different features. Most also have discounted student, family, and free ad-supported tiers.

  • Spotify: A popular choice with a standard ad-free individual plan costing around $11-$12 per month.

     

  • Apple Music: Competitively priced with a standard individual plan at about $11 per month.

     

  • Amazon Music Unlimited: Priced around $11 per month, with a discount for Amazon Prime members.

     

  • TIDAL: Known for high-quality audio, its individual plan is also priced around $11 per month.

     

  • YouTube Music: The ad-free individual plan is typically $11 per month.

 

Video Streaming Services

 

Video streaming services have a wider range of prices due to a variety of factors, including the inclusion of ads, video quality, and the number of simultaneous streams. They are generally more expensive than audio streaming.

  • Netflix: Offers a tiered pricing model, with a basic ad-supported plan starting around $7-$8 per month, a standard ad-free plan around $18 per month, and a premium plan around $25 per month.

     

  • Max (formerly HBO Max): Provides ad-supported and ad-free tiers, with prices ranging from approximately $10 to $21 per month.

  • Disney+: An ad-supported plan starts around $8 per month, with an ad-free premium plan costing about $16 per month.

  • Hulu: Offers various plans, including an ad-supported tier for around $8-$10 per month and an ad-free plan for about $18-$19 per month.

  • Amazon Prime Video: Included with an Amazon Prime membership, which costs around $15 per month or a separate subscription for around $9 per month.

     

  • Apple TV+: Priced at about $10 per month.

     

  • Peacock: Has ad-supported plans starting around $8 per month and ad-free tiers for approximately $11-$17 per month.


 

Reasons for the Price Differences

 

The primary reasons for the cost disparity between audio and video streaming services are related to content production, licensing models, and the perceived value to the consumer.

1. Content Production and Acquisition Costs:

  • Video: The cost to produce a single movie or TV show is astronomical, often in the tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars. Video streaming platforms like Netflix and Max invest heavily in creating original, high-budget content to attract and retain subscribers. They also pay large, fixed fees for the licensing rights to stream movies and series from other studios for a specific period of time.

  • Audio: While music production also has costs, they are significantly lower than video. Furthermore, the licensing model for music is different. Audio streaming services typically pay royalties on a per-stream basis. This means they pay a small fee to rights holders (record labels, publishers, and artists) every time a song is played. This model avoids the massive upfront fixed costs that are common in video content acquisition.

     

     

2. Licensing and Royalties:

  • Video: Video services often seek exclusive, limited-time licenses for content to differentiate themselves from competitors. For example, a new blockbuster film might be available on only one streaming service for a set period. This exclusivity drives up the price of licensing.

  • Audio: Music services, on the other hand, strive for comprehensive libraries. Since music content is largely non-exclusive (the same song is available on Spotify, Apple Music, and Amazon Music), they compete on user experience and features rather than unique content. The per-play royalty model incentivizes music rights holders to have their content on as many platforms as possible to maximize their earnings from plays.

3. Data and Bandwidth Costs:

  • Video: Streaming high-definition or 4K video consumes a massive amount of data. This translates to higher bandwidth and infrastructure costs for video platforms to deliver a smooth viewing experience to millions of users simultaneously.

  • Audio: While higher-fidelity audio formats like lossless or hi-res FLAC require more data, they are still a fraction of the data needed for even standard-definition video. The operational costs for audio streaming are therefore much lower.

4. Market Fragmentation and Competition:

  • Video: The video streaming market is highly fragmented, with each service vying for a limited number of consumer subscriptions. This has led to a price war of sorts, but also to a push for original and exclusive content, which inflates costs. Consumers often subscribe to multiple video services to access the full range of content they desire, a practice known as "stacking," which further justifies the higher individual prices.

  • Audio: The audio streaming market is dominated by a few key players. While there is competition, the general market model has been to offer a large, similar library of music for a competitive, relatively low price. Consumers are less likely to subscribe to multiple music services, as the core library is largely the same across platforms.

Sources

 

Compare the prices of the top ten audio streaming devices to the top ten video streaming devices and explain the reasons for any differences in prices.

 

There is a significant difference in the price range of audio streaming devices and video streaming devices, with audio devices often being much more expensive.

 

Price Comparison

 

Video Streaming Devices are generally more affordable and accessible to a mass market. The price of popular video streaming devices typically ranges from $30 to $200. For example, the Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K and Roku Streaming Stick 4K are often priced around $50, while the more advanced Apple TV 4K and NVIDIA Shield TV Pro can cost upwards of $130 and $200, respectively.

 

Audio Streaming Devices, often referred to as "streamers" or "network players," have a much broader price spectrum. The entry-level and more budget-friendly options, such as the WiiM Pro Plus, are priced around $200-$300. However, the prices quickly escalate into the mid-range and high-end, with many devices costing over $1,000. Premium, audiophile-grade streamers from brands like Cambridge Audio, Naim, or Audiolab can run into the thousands of dollars, with some models costing over $3,000.

 

 

 

Reasons for Price Differences

 

The disparity in price between audio and video streaming devices is due to several key factors related to their intended purpose, target audience, and the technology involved.

  1. Target Audience and Market:

    • Video streaming devices are designed for a mass-market audience that prioritizes convenience and accessibility. The goal is to provide a simple, plug-and-play solution for streaming video content from popular services like Netflix, Hulu, and Disney+. This high volume of sales allows manufacturers to keep prices low.

    • Audio streaming devices, particularly the more expensive models, are aimed at a niche market of "audiophiles" and high-fidelity enthusiasts. This group is willing to pay a premium for superior sound quality and advanced features. The lower sales volume for these specialized products necessitates a higher price point to cover research, development, and manufacturing costs.

       

  2. Focus on Specific Technology and Components:

    • Video streaming devices are primarily focused on processing and outputting a high-quality video signal (e.g., 4K HDR) and supporting a user-friendly interface. While they do process audio, it’s typically for decoding formats like Dolby Atmos and DTS, which are standard for home theater setups.

    • Audio streaming devices are designed from the ground up to minimize signal interference and reproduce the highest possible audio quality. This requires specialized, high-end components. Key features that drive up the cost include:

      • High-Quality Digital-to-Analog Converters (DACs): Many expensive audio streamers include high-resolution DACs to convert digital audio files into an analog signal with the utmost clarity and fidelity. These components are far more sophisticated and expensive than the audio chips found in standard video streamers.

      • Dedicated Audio Circuitry: High-end audio streamers often have separate power supplies and isolated circuits for different components to prevent electrical noise from degrading the audio signal.

      • Support for High-Resolution Audio: These devices are built to handle high-resolution lossless audio formats (e.g., FLAC, DSD, MQA) that contain much more data than standard MP3s or even common streaming formats. This requires more powerful processing and specialized hardware.

  3. Physical Construction and Build Quality:

    • Video streaming devices are typically small, lightweight, and made of plastic. They are designed to be unobtrusive and easily hidden behind a TV.

    • High-end audio streamers are often built with heavy-duty materials like solid aluminum chassis to reduce vibration and provide a more premium feel. This robust construction is a significant factor in their higher cost.

In essence, while both types of devices serve the purpose of "streaming," they are built for entirely different priorities. Video streamers are about convenience and a good-enough experience for a broad audience. Audio streamers are about a meticulous pursuit of sonic perfection for a dedicated, high-end market, and their prices reflect the specialized components and craftsmanship required to achieve that goal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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yeah, no thanks. I'm amazed at how eager people are to jump on this burning dumpster, as it hurtles head on toward the last vestiges of tenuously held humanity. Late stage capitalism at its finest.

What happens when you let a chatbot play Wall Street? It’s up 29% while the S&P 500 lags at 4%.

@lanx0003 

I was looking forward to reading about your AI stock market experiment, but the article is only visible to paid Medium subscribers. If you would like folks here to read it, you might want to paste it in this forum.

@toddalin 

Respectfully, you're posting 5000 words worth of AI-generated word diarrhea verbatim...? Off-topic at that?

Only thing it achieves is to burden Audiogon's servers even more than they already are, and heavens know they don't really need any  help to bog down to a crawl

I used several AIs to compare many possible speaker choices, from mid to relatively high end (BTW, I ended puchasing a pair of Yamaha NS-2000) and I got wildy different responses from ChatGPT, Gemini, Claude, DeepSeek, Grok, Qwen. Claude seemed to be better than ChatFPT and better than Gemini, the others: oiii...