New Turntable Advice

Thanks the only experience I have with Sony is the PS-X700 which I've had since it was released. I enjoyed the simplicity of it. But then I got convinced by a friend that I needed that VPI...

I have no problems with DD and servos working properly with the correct windings for the job! 
 

So to your question I don't have any other experiences but thru reading the discussions on the Nak an owner said he much preferred his Sony PS-X8 over the Nak.

@lewm 

effect of AC voltage on torque of an induction motor

Thanks Lew

I’ve done some reading as you suggested and have a better understanding of how the Garrad 301 motor works.  I also know more about why Festool generates 3-phase AC in their hand-held battery-operated drills!

The issue when the motor is rotating a turntable is surely the effect of varying AC voltage on the speed of the motor.  Torque is of no direct interest provided there is enough to maintain the required speed.

The stonking big motor in the Garrard 301, as you correctly point out, does not generate much torque for its size.  That is because it is an asynchronous, single phase, shaded pole design.  These rotate slightly slower than a synchronous motor would, with a slip somewhere between 0.5% and 5%.

The greater the slip, the higher the torque produced.  Indeed, if the slip were 0% no torque would be produced at all.  So they self regulate to a near constant speed which is related to mains frequency but not to voltage.  The same motor is used for dual voltage ranges (200- to 250-Volts and 100- to 130-Volts) via two different connection points.  Two different pulley diameters are used for 50-Hz and 60-Hz.

I am connected near the middle of the world’s longest power grid and frequency stability has never been an issue!

You probably know a lot more about the 301 and its motor than I do, but back when I was choosing between Lenco and Garrard, there seemed to be a strong consensus among 301 owners that an external motor controller worked wonders. Mark Kelly, who used to frequent Vinyl Asylum, and is in fact an Aussie, built solid state and tube-based motor controllers for his own and for others.  I ordered one of his tube types in advance of my own idea to purchase a 301. I did purchase a 301, but by the time Mark's tube based controller arrived at my doorstep, I had already sold the 301 chassis and was moving ahead with Lenco. So I quickly re-sold that controller; it was such a hot item at the time that it went in about a day at the price I paid. Mark now makes wood bicycle frames, last I heard. In real life, he is or was a vintner. My point being that if the motor per se is so speed stable, why would there be so much benefit from a motor controller? (What can affect speed of idler TT is wear on the idler wheel and stuff like that which is no fault of the motor.) I just came up from a listening session with my Lenco (in slate plinth driven via Eagle motor controller using RoadRunner tach, massive aftermarket bearing made in UK, platter sprayed with vibration reducing paint, Boston Audio graphite mat, bearing Viv Float tonearm and Dynavector DV505 tonearm.) Driving a modified Steelhead phono driving the built in amplifiers of the Beveridge 2SW speakers using my home made TL woofers. I just had to say all that.

Yeah, and now for something completely different: a bespoke turntable that you configure in conversation with the designer, one of the most respected names in turntable design for the last half-century, who then builds it from scratch to your specs.

I’ve owned a GEM Dandy Polytable for about 5 years now (currently equpped with a Korf tonearm and DS Audio cartridge), which I purchased directly from George Merrill’s  quasi-retirement boutique company Analog Emporium.  All built in America, if that makes a difference to you.  Barebones tables run $2500-5000 and can be configured with 0, 1, or 2 tonearms.  George doesn’t advertise much, so I was turned on to the Polytable by Michael Fremer, who personally recommended it.  In Mikey’s extensive Stereophile piece (or was it Analog Planet), he was amazed by the speed accuracy, which George states has a tolerance of about 3 ppm!

Since buying it, I’ve gotten completely out of the constant-upgrade vortex.  It’s really a remarkable table, with some features that you don’t expect to see in four-figure offerings.  George keeps the price down by selling direct from his low-overhead operation.

For me, part of the intrigue of this table was the opportunity to speak at length with one of the true geniuses in the field, now in his 70s or 80s.  I coulld be wrong, but I think only a small number of these tables (no more than the hundreds) have been built, so it’s possible that it may become as much of a highly sought-after collectible as George’s earlier designs, like the Merrill-Williams R.E.A.L. and Heirloom lines.

It’s also a very clever design from a manufacturability and maintainability perspective, built to be easy to build and service.  When mine was heavily damaged in shipping, George restored it to factory spec in a day.  And he’s personally guaranteed to me that, if he ever does REALLY retire, he’ll make sure that parts and service will be available indefinitely.

Anyway, this isn’t a product for everybody, but if you’re the kind of person (like me), who is fascinated by unique, personalized products like this (especially if they look like something out of "A Clockwork Orange"), here’s a link:

https://www.hifigem.com/

Oh, and I almost forgot.  The Polytable/Korf/DS combo sounds pretty spectacular, easily the best record player, sonically, that I’ve ever owned.  And for the uninitiated, "GEM" refers to "George E. Merrill," whose signature is on every unit.

@mylogic Your post is very interesting and I can assure you that if you was to be using a Standalone Strobe to check rotational speed, and not a inbuilt to the TT strobe, the suspected fluctuation would have been discovered with immediacy.

With the modern world of the TT and certain experts adopting for the use of $3K -- $5K cart's used  Vintage TT models, of which there is an un-serviced TT in use and the idea of improving is Garlic to a Vampire. Why would this type come forward and say they were using a TT that was as a Bearing Assembly Mechanical Awful.

Would that not suggest they might as well have a $50-$100 MM Cart' in use.

Putting all that Banging and Clanging from the Bearing Housing ( think stylus ) through the Platter and into the stylus to become very very very adulterated sent energy for conversion, might as well be converted by the Cheap MM to electrical signal for sending for Amplification/Gain.

It is easy to understand the Blocker for the type of individual I am referring to, as why would MM Signal be wanted to be sent to a $10K Phonostage.

The idea in many minds is the Phon' is the fixer of all things unwanted, where as the reality is the Phon' adds Gain to all that is received, albeit unadulterated energy extracted from stylus / groove modulation - Adulterated from stylus / groove modulation, along with Ambient Kinetic Energy Transferral, hence all that is received by the Phon' from the latter interface of the Stylus in contact with Groove Modulation is adulteration of the Fidelity. Simply put what arrives at the Phonostage is the Electronics used for Audio Equivalent of Sodom and Gomorrah 

I started out in the 90's showing a concern for the quality of a Bearing Assembly and had my first rebuild done back then on a Garrard 401.

At that time I was a fledgling with the audio interest, I was changing from owning off the shelf audio equipment bought from High Street Dealerships. This was the time the Cornerstone was laid for what has been built as a Learning and System over the past 30ish years.

As a speedy put together guestimate, I would suggest that from my Garrard 401, through to the current time, I have been privy to being demonstrated close to 30ish redesigns for TT's Bearing Housing Assemblies, add to that Serviced Nearing Housing assemblies and it gets nearer 50ish.

In a few cases of demonstrations, same model TT's > Tonearm > Cart' was used to show an untouched vintage TT, Serviced Bearing Housing on a vintage TT, Redesigned and Rebuilt Bearing Housing on a vintage TT.

It is an indelible experience, when demonstrations are capable to not only present a substantially improved End Sound, but also the quality extends into the body, it is physically felt that something is very very right. One is left with certainty in their knowing that a typical Bearing Housing Assembly in a untreated condition is extremely unattractive to experience, when comparisons are carried out with a short period of time between demonstrations.

I know that there are numerous TT's from BD - ID - DD that have a Bearing Housing which Teeters as a result of energies being transferred, when occurring is creating noise to be transferred to the stylus and Off Axis Spindle rotation, which is readable as a Run-Out on the Platter peripheral. Speed Fluctuation will be discovered as well.

Add to Teeter a poor interface for the Platter Spindle / Bush where Bearing Slop is evident and this will add to the noise in conjunction with the teeter being transferred to the Stylus, as well as show an increased Off Axis Rotation, the Speed Fluctuation will be easily measurable as well.

Certain designs of TT's have their own failures at maintaining accurate speed, combining this concern with the above issues impacting on speed and there is something not far from attractive in place.

Add to this the industry standard tolerance allowance for an eccentric rotation and oversized hole, with the above conditions being present, which they are on many many TT models, and the outcome becomes the Stylus in contact with the Groove Modulation has a far from optimised interface, and sent data will be corrupted to the point of being very low value.

Not a Cart' of any value, Cart' alignment tool of any value or Phonostage of any value is a fix, one might as well invest as little as possible in the ancillaries, when the mechanical interfaces are not functioning to a very high standard.