Let's talk music, no genre boundaries

@frogman 

Thank you for that article on interpreting composers. I have a box set of Stravinsky conducting his three ballets. I have heard other interpretations that I like better. Being a great composer does not make one a great conductor which has not only to do with interpretation but the ability to convey to the orchestra that interpretation.

@mahgister 

I have to stop reading "Ever-Present Origin." We can't discuss it here. Maybe you can try a PM and I might get an email to respond to. Briefly, when the author began talking about the awakening of the soul in "archaic man," he just lost me. First, he did not define what he means by soul. And secondly, If there is a soul, I believe it existed long before Homos sapiens. To me, his outlook is very 1966. So much thought has happened since then. Again, if you want to discuss further, try to PM me. Thanks.

First, the awakening of the soul is that: an awakening of the self consciousness...Then Gebser never said that the soul  did not exist before homo sapiens but that it awake to new dimension of self reflection.

If you doubt  even the soul could exist i am not suprised that you close the Gebser book...But your opinion about the soul inexistence appear so much dated exactly from the materialism era, and industrialization, since then  things has changed recently , did you know ?

And  anyway in spite of my sarcasm about materialism  it makes no sense to critic a thinker saying his outlook is too much "1966"...We dont speak about design clothes here ...And the events which happened since Plato cannot be used as a reason  to close off the book of  a philosopher...

I understand that you already had your own set of ideas against which Gebser seems to goes opposite...

It is all good we do not understand things et see them from the same perspective...

I dont see what i can speak about which will beat Gebser ideas...

By the way i could recommend at least 50 others genius confirming his takes on the evolution of consciousness from all perspectives and fields...from acoustics to linguistics, to mathematics, psychology ,anthropology, history, epistemology... It was my job  before retirement ...

I stop to read only mediocre book...I dont even need to stop reading them i sense them before 15 minutes...

And yes the "soul" exist...I trust mathematics and if the primes numbers appear more solid than a table as for existence, then the soul too is real...But materialist think that numbers are from some  apes merely symbolic convention with no meanings... It is false but here the discussion is out of place... And too long with too many books to quote from ...

@mahgister 

I have to stop reading "Ever-Present Origin." We can’t discuss it here. Maybe you can try a PM and I might get an email to respond to. Briefly, when the author began talking about the awakening of the soul in "archaic man," he just lost me. First, he did not define what he means by soul. And secondly, If there is a soul, I believe it existed long before Homos sapiens. To me, his outlook is very 1966. So much thought has happened since then. Again, if you want to discuss further, try to PM me. Thanks.

Thanks frogman for this very interesting article about musicians who are music itself...

All composers are first and last musician who could "interpret" their own work but any work of genius exceed his creator...They can interpret their own work but without ever exhausting it if it is a deep one...

Art of music is so deep,no one master it once for all even his own works escape the creator with a life of his own...

Simple evidence : each new interpretation of the art of the fugue on any set of instruments non intended by Bach  reveal something new...

To feel bored listening to Bach or Josquin Des Prez pass my understanding and my perception...

I am never bored by great musicians who play any great work or improvised masterfully...

https://crosseyedpianist.com/2020/07/27/the-composer-intends/

In a word. music is boring if it is industrial production...

Music is not boring, it is our attention span and power often that makes music boring...

Music written or not is makes by musician...

Then speaking of a symphony from a composer without naming the musicians behind the interpretation makes no sense for me...

I never loved any composer BEFORE listening them by specific musicians which awake me to the composer creative potential because they were able to tap in the composer creativity in a way that touch me. It could be different interpretations for sure for others people. But interpretation, thats to say, musician playing "voices" is music, not the written paper.

Music meanings is linked to cultural history , if we are unable to read history through music we miss a lot...

Tastes must be educated as the ears must be trained...

Music like poetry or mathematics ask for attention training...

They exist boring people in my experience, but no boring music from any cultures on earth...

I listen music,i hear acoustics, as i read a book, the attention  awaked...I judged it after deep listening.

We hear music with sounds conveying information about the vibrating  sound source material and spiritual state, which are the vibrating instruments and the vibrating gesturing body of the musician even from his heart and mind...

Sound generate light, in the beginning was the "verb"....

A sound inside a sound,inside a sound; body,soul,spirit...

For those who have said they do not enjoy Beethoven, I am posting his most lyrical symphony, his 6th, Pastorale. The conductor is Bruno Walter who had conducted this symphony many times. This recording, however, was done when he was 80, and it is slow and musical. I think it is the most purchased album of Beethoven's 6th. I loved it the minute I heared it. If you go to classical music forums, it is almost always included as one of the best recordings of Beethoven's 6th. I hope you enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIjiKZR0BSs