What say you: Is this fair, or AITA?


About 18 months ago, I listed some gear on this site. I paid the nominal insertion fee for the pay later option. However, I removed the listing after one day as I changed my mind and decided to keep the unit for a 2nd system.

 

About 13 months passed by and a fellow audiogon user reached out to me via this site’s private messaging system to see if I might be interested in selling the unit as he somehow found my expired/discontinued listing. By the way, I didn’t know expired listings were still searchable. I would have removed it.

 

I told this member unless he was really motivated - that I was holding on to the unit for a second system. While he was motivated, for a variety of good reasons, we didn’t transact. Nevertheless, we begin a friendship over the phone regarding our shared interest in audio. A few more months or so pass by and my 2nd system needs change so I ping him using the site’s messaging system. Of course, I recognize my mistake - I should have called him directly.

He still wants to buy it and I’m willing to sell it to him for well below my original listing price as we’ve formed a friendship, he’s taken a new job, I don’t need it, he’ll appreciate it, I won’t have the transaction fee applied, etc.

We agree to meet up at Axpona and exchange.

And, that’s when Audiogon hits me with a $275 transaction fee for the original listing amount (30% higher than I sold it for). I contact support to dispute - they hold firm. I, so far, have held firm in not paying the fee - though they’ve tried multiple times to charge my card without my authorization.

A couple of additional points I think worth noting.

I have successfully bought and sold quite a few pieces of gear on this site. They have, so far, earned several thousand dollars from me in transaction fees. I have a perfect record of feedback as well.

The site administrator’s position is that I should pay the fee since we met on this site and used their messaging system.

My position is that I paid an insertion fee and received an unsolicited request from a private party more than a year after I removed the listing. Audiogon did not help me market the unit. Nor did they help me in clearing the transaction, provide shipping support or any of the other related elements that are part of a normal transaction. Nor did I want that help.

Their fee is 30% higher than it would have been if I had gone through this site.

The site administrators have limited my activity here until I pay the fee. I can only post in the forums.

For me - It’s not the money but the principle of it which has left a bad taste in my mouth. I should also note that I have gone upstream considerably in the gear I now own. Future sales through Audiogon would be far more valuable to them than in the past. Indeed, I’ve recently sold several other pieces to/through the Music Room quite conveniently.

 

I fully understand they need to protect their business model. I’ve been a willing participant for years and have never blinked at paying their fees. However, this seems an overreach to me. But perhaps I’m seeing it incorrectly or unfairly. So, what say you a’goners? I won’t promise to pay the fee if that’s your consensus, but I’ll strongly consider it if you think I’m being an @$$.

mgrif104

Basically what Agon is doing here is LOCKING members who run an add with them INTO A LIFETIME UNWRITTEN CONTRACT...I would think a court of law would rule that any & all financial responsibility begins when the add starts & ends when either cancelled or it runs out..ANY sale that occurs after that timeframe,despite the fact that it was instituted via PM is NOT subject to the original agreement as to final payment on a sale under the original add....
 The argument could also be made that they’re are websites like hifishark that can & do post for sale adds from Agon,Ebay & USAM that are long expired,negating the argument that the product eventually sold BECAUSE of the original posted add on Agon..
  I’m surprised they don’t monitor USAM for any & all transactions that might occur between Agon members & try to extort a cut of those deals as well...

I can see both sides. I wouldn’t think you’re a bad person if you refused to pay a single dime.

I wouldn’t think it out of line if you agreed to pay a fee based on the actual sales price, or a down-negotiated version thereof. 

But I would be shocked, frankly, if you paid the full amount they’re asking.

In any event, such a case figure should be addressed by the user agreement. If it isn’t, that’s on Audiogon. Surely their claim to a fee should be limited in time.

Another thought: instead of endlessly monitoring the PM system, wouldn’t it be easier to just shut it down if off-site sales are a concern?

From what I’ve seen, many PMs seen to be pickers / flippers trying to sell you stuff you don’t want.

Finally, Audiogon lets expired listings be searchable post-expiration so they show up in google searches. Doesn’t that make them public domain information at that point in time?

Interesting question though. 

 

@devinplombier 

Good points. I, too, see both sides - hence, the question. As you and others have noted - I will not (should not) pay the invoiced fee on principle alone as it’s based on a selling price I did not receive. 

Your last point is particularly relevant. I wasn’t trying to go around anything - the unit wasn’t for sale! I wouldn’t have had contact with this person if the expired ads weren’t searchable. I would have re-listed the item and all parties would be satisfied. 

So, the net result is I’m a frustrated user who is unlikely to use (or recommend) the site again to buy or sell equipment. Of course, they can’t give a pass to everyone as there would be potential for abuse. But it’s hard to see how Audiogon wins even if they collect some portion of the invoiced fee.

The discussion has been helpful to me. I have appreciated the various perspectives. If nothing else, perhaps the thread raises awareness which might prevent others from repeating the experience.

 

 

 

Everyone knows Audiogon rules don't allow personal contact info with Audiogon messaging. So in this transaction seller/buyer got around that by either using code for tel. number or gon missed it altogether. Using code is cheating, gon missing it is gray area. Seems amount gon charging based on original asking price, seller claims didn't get asking price. How does gon know that to be true?

 

My take is knowing the rules one should abide by those rules, other places to sell if you don't like rules here. There have been a couple times buyers wanted me to break gon rules with personal contact codes via gon PM, I refused. I also consider this forum to have added value for me, this benefit should have a cost, not cheating the system is that cost. I'm a business owner so perhaps my perspective different from others.