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We Need To Talk About Ones And Zeroes

Several well-respected audiophiles in this forum have stated that the sound quality of hi-res streamed audio equals or betters the sound quality of traditional digital sources.

These are folks who have spent decades assembling highly desirable systems and whose listening skills are beyond reproach. I for one tend to respect their opinions.

Tidal is headquartered in NYC, NY from Norwegian origins. Qobuz is headquartered in Paris, France. Both services are hosted on Amazon Web Services (AWS), the cloud infrastructure services giant that commands roughly one third of the world's entire cloud services market.

AWS server farms are any audiophile's nightmare. Tens of thousands of multi-CPU servers and industrial-grade switches crammed in crowded racks, miles of ordinary cabling coursing among tens of thousands of buzzing switched-mode power supplies and noisy cooling fans. Industrial HVAC plants humming 24/7.

This, I think, demonstrates without a doubt that audio files digitally converted to packets of ones and zeroes successfully travel thousands of miles through AWS' digital sewer, only to arrive in our homes completely unscathed and ready to deliver sound quality that, by many prominent audiophiles' account, rivals or exceeds that of $5,000 CD transports. 

This also demonstrates that digital transmission protocols just work flawlessly over noise-saturated industrial-grade lines and equipment chosen for raw performance and cost-effectiveness.

This also puts in perspective the importance of improvements deployed in the home, which is to say in the last ten feet of our streamed music's multi-thousand mile journey.

No worries, I am not about to argue that a $100 streamer has to sound the same as a $30,000 one because "it's all ones and zeroes".

But it would be nice to agree on a shared-understanding baseline, because without it intelligent discourse becomes difficult. The sooner everyone gets on the same page, which is to say that our systems' digital chains process nothing less and nothing more than packets of ones and zeroes, the sooner we can move on to genuinely thought-provoking stuff like, why don't all streamers sound the same? Why do cables make a difference? Wouldn't that be more interesting?

devinplombier
lalitk's avatar
lalitk
6,183 posts
 

“I am gonna have to disagree on this one”
@mdalton 

I get where you’re coming from and comparison to Ptolemy’s geocentric model is a good analogy.

I’m all for theory-based approaches, and I think skepticism is healthy, especially when people start making hyperbolic claims. But I don’t think it’s a matter of “going backward” as you so eloquently stated, it’s about finding a balance between the science we know, the theories we develop and the subjective experience we can’t fully define yet. 

You do know, I admire your system and respect your opinion but we been through this before….we may not agree on how much certain upstream changes matter, but I think we both care deeply about getting the most out of our audio systems and staying grounded in what actually delivers musical joy.

So here’s to agreeing to disagree, respectfully and with ears wide open :-) 

mdalton's avatar
mdalton
814 posts
 

@lalitk 

Cheers my friend.  Btw, I’ve recently discovered MJ Acoustics, a UK company that specializes in subwoofers.  Long story, but they’re custom finishing a sub to match my restored Altecs in my vintage system.  If that project is as successful as I’m hoping, I am contemplating adding the new Fyne super tweeter.  Which gets me to this question:  How do you feel about your Tannoy super tweeter? (Apologies to @devinplombier for this temporary high jack)

 

devinplombier OP
1,679 posts
 

(Apologies to @devinplombier for this temporary high jack)

@mdalton 

Not at all, in fact I'm curious about the super tweeters after reading @lalitk 's eloquent description in his virtual system page.

Something I would have assumed was not for me due to my hearing threshold no longer having a 2 in front of it (at least it still has 5 figures!), but cymbals can produce harmonics into the 70 KHz range. Wonder if other instruments benefit similarly from super tweeters.

mdalton's avatar
mdalton
814 posts
 

white paper

@devinplombier 

Here’s a Fyne white paper on their super tweeter.  Notice that it has measurements and actual citations, including to peer reviewed papers published in the Audio Engineering Society Journal.  So while there is some controversy among some audiophiles regarding the efficacy of super tweeters, Fyne has actually done what I’ve criticized switch, server and streamer manufacturers for not doing.

 

deep_333
2,451 posts
 

If some tweeter (super or not so super)  played a 29khz tone and a 30khz tone simultaneously, you will hear it as a 1khz tone (doppler whatever), well within your audible range...no matter if your ear doctor told you that your ears don’t work after 14khz and above.

Same goes for more misinformation being spread on @cooper52 ’s thread where some dudes are telling him that there is no musical information below 30hz (facepalm) and a sub getting down to 10hz is meaningless...

With this very complex amalgamation of frequencies overtones, undertones, whatever... referred to as music, one could never never be too sure of anything these days...

I wish I could create a graphic or an animation about this but...that would be too much unnecessary work for a forum thread.

Not at all, in fact I’m curious about the super tweeters after reading @lalitk ’s eloquent description in his virtual system page.

 

Something I would have assumed was not for me due to my hearing threshold no longer having a 2 in front of it (at least it still has 5 figures!), but cymbals can produce harmonics into the 70 KHz range. Wonder if other instruments benefit similarly from super tweeters.

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