1. Home
  2. digital
  3. 194442-192372

We Need To Talk About Ones And Zeroes

Several well-respected audiophiles in this forum have stated that the sound quality of hi-res streamed audio equals or betters the sound quality of traditional digital sources.

These are folks who have spent decades assembling highly desirable systems and whose listening skills are beyond reproach. I for one tend to respect their opinions.

Tidal is headquartered in NYC, NY from Norwegian origins. Qobuz is headquartered in Paris, France. Both services are hosted on Amazon Web Services (AWS), the cloud infrastructure services giant that commands roughly one third of the world's entire cloud services market.

AWS server farms are any audiophile's nightmare. Tens of thousands of multi-CPU servers and industrial-grade switches crammed in crowded racks, miles of ordinary cabling coursing among tens of thousands of buzzing switched-mode power supplies and noisy cooling fans. Industrial HVAC plants humming 24/7.

This, I think, demonstrates without a doubt that audio files digitally converted to packets of ones and zeroes successfully travel thousands of miles through AWS' digital sewer, only to arrive in our homes completely unscathed and ready to deliver sound quality that, by many prominent audiophiles' account, rivals or exceeds that of $5,000 CD transports. 

This also demonstrates that digital transmission protocols just work flawlessly over noise-saturated industrial-grade lines and equipment chosen for raw performance and cost-effectiveness.

This also puts in perspective the importance of improvements deployed in the home, which is to say in the last ten feet of our streamed music's multi-thousand mile journey.

No worries, I am not about to argue that a $100 streamer has to sound the same as a $30,000 one because "it's all ones and zeroes".

But it would be nice to agree on a shared-understanding baseline, because without it intelligent discourse becomes difficult. The sooner everyone gets on the same page, which is to say that our systems' digital chains process nothing less and nothing more than packets of ones and zeroes, the sooner we can move on to genuinely thought-provoking stuff like, why don't all streamers sound the same? Why do cables make a difference? Wouldn't that be more interesting?

devinplombier
mdalton's avatar
mdalton
813 posts
 

@lalitk 

You know I love your system, and I’ve always enjoyed your contributions, but I am gonna have to disagree on this one.  Am reminded of Ptolemy.  For gosh sakes, everybody watched the sun go around the earth, and that fit nicely with some of our religious beliefs.  So when Ptolemy made the math to back up a geocentric model of the solar system work, it took 1400 years before we were finally able to get the science right - thank you Copernicus!  (Kyrie Irving has reasserted a flat earth view, but that’s probably for a different convo, lol!).  

So I think it’s pretty important to start with a sound theory and understanding of the science before we start trying to convince ourselves that we’re hearing stuff that, while it fits our religion, threatens to take us back to a pre-Copernicun world.  And I think that’s why the OP started this thread.

deep_333
2,450 posts
 

The primary goal of streaming/rental music services should be for discovering new artists/music.

If you like the album, buy it and pay the artist...not to mention permanent ownership.

If it’s only available in redbook CD, so be it...

If there is a 24bit studio master available, burn it on blu-ray and achieve the highest fidelity possible.

Getting into all the nitty gritty of error propagation, containment whatever and arguing it with all the supposed digital geniuses could drive someone nuts soon enough. No one here with the requisite engineering background hacked into or looked under the hood of everything to be sure of everything...

Yes but is it “high end” TCP/IP? 😬

mapman's avatar
mapman
23,616 posts
 

Like any well engineered solution, the best systems are in fact built based on facts or rules first, then trusting your ears from there.  
 

Arguments for trusting your ears alone are flawed.   Your ears can only hear what is there, not what may be missing.  Facts and rules come first to help have best chance of covering all the bases first thereby giving your ears the best chance of being the most happy. 
 

 

devinplombier OP
1,677 posts
 

@lalitk 

After perusing your virtual system following @mdalton ’s compliment of same, I would say that if my own system were anywhere near the state of evolution yours is in, I would likely be more open to evaluating components I currently consider secondary.

My own system would likely look very different than yours, and I suspect we enjoy different musical and listening styles. One thing they would probably have in common though is the NADAC stack. Why AES67 isn't better known / more prevalent in the audiophile world is beyond me.

It’s a beautiful system. Congratulations!

richardbrand's avatar
richardbrand
1,409 posts
 

@devinplombier 

A person relies extensively on cut-and-pasting at the risk of appearing lazy and unintelligent.

... we all have access to google AI and we would know how to query it if we felt like it. Doing it on our behalf adds no value and merely pollutes the thread.

No one can be expected to read 2,000 words of google-generated drivel and I admit I did not - so if I missed something I apologize

I like Google AI because anyone can re-run a query - you are not reliant on what a single contributor 'knows', and can 'remember', and can 'articulate'.  It is not as if I  am so unintelligent and ignorant and lazy that I never contribute original content!

Unfortunately, it is obvious that many contributors here do not have much technical understanding or do even basic research.  Witness your own assertion that most network components do not have processors, though they clearly perform logic!

You now seem to agree that streaming is not guaranteed to be 100% perfect.  I have no idea whether this is audible (except for obvious drop-outs) but many people report hearing differences.  Data loss and un-corrected errors are one possible explanation.

More to discover