We Need To Talk About Ones And Zeroes

I am not at all horrified by any of this. I am thankful streaming works well enough to meet the quality standards I demand without a whole lot of fussing about. I appreciate that physical media may in fact be better but in the final analysis I am not sure the difference is audible. If I cannot hear the difference then its a non-problem.

“Router, switches, Ethernet cabling and the like should have zero effect on sound quality“
@devinplombier 

You’re absolutely right from a purely technical and engineering standpoint. However, many experienced listeners here reported audible differences when they tinkered with Ethernet cables, Routers/switches, Network isolators and filters ahead of a well designed streamer’s. 

The proof is in the pudding and in audio, your ears are the spoon.

Theories, specs, and measurements are critical, but what you actually hear is the final word. If swapping a switch or cable makes music more alive, relaxed, or emotionally gripping in your system, then it’s real for you regardless of what measurements suggests. 

The best systems aren’t built by following rules, they’re shaped by listening, experimenting and trusting your own instincts. 

@lalitk 

Thank you for your post. In principle, I 100% agree with you.

That’s why I was careful to write that pre-streamer digital components should make no difference in sound quality. I was also careful to insert a qualifier about "all power supplies being equal". Finally, it is conceivable that, amongst the millions of possible component combinations, a new switch might correct some kind of incompatibility or condition caused by the old switch.

In short... I don’t know. I’m aware of opinions out there holding that passive digital components may have a positive impact on sound quality, and I respect some of them.

Claims of "stunning" or "transformational" differences, however, are 99.99% certain to be hogwash (the remaining .01% being due to correcting some equipment incompatibility as mentioned above). Barring the latter, folks making such ridiculous claims likely haven’t heard any difference at all, let alone a "stunning" one, and probably couldn’t tell the difference between the cannonade in the 1812 Overture and their wife slamming the lid on the trash can.

Which brings us to, if passive digital components do make a difference in sound quality, how big can that difference possibly be expected to be? How big of a positive impact can these components make, considering that the packets they transmit at that stage represent anything and everything besides music? I believe, very very little; and whether it’s worth pursuing it is a personal choice. Personally, I am not willing to spend time auditioning network switches, because the reward is more likely than not to not justify the investment. But that’s just me.

You mention measurements. I’m aware it’s something of a dirty word for some around here, but the good news is that the bit-perfectness (?) of audio streaming is demonstrable without any measurements involved, simply by checksumming the sent and received data.

For the record, I am biased toward science and rationality (in case you didn’t notice :); however, I think measurements are only as good as what they measure, and that they do not necessarily correlate to sound quality. I do believe John Atkinson’s work adds value to Stereophile reviews, creating a balanced approach.

I think I read somewhere that John Atkinson himself said he does not review digital components because "there is nothing to measure" (correct me if I made that up!).

@lalitk 

You know I love your system, and I’ve always enjoyed your contributions, but I am gonna have to disagree on this one.  Am reminded of Ptolemy.  For gosh sakes, everybody watched the sun go around the earth, and that fit nicely with some of our religious beliefs.  So when Ptolemy made the math to back up a geocentric model of the solar system work, it took 1400 years before we were finally able to get the science right - thank you Copernicus!  (Kyrie Irving has reasserted a flat earth view, but that’s probably for a different convo, lol!).  

So I think it’s pretty important to start with a sound theory and understanding of the science before we start trying to convince ourselves that we’re hearing stuff that, while it fits our religion, threatens to take us back to a pre-Copernicun world.  And I think that’s why the OP started this thread.

The primary goal of streaming/rental music services should be for discovering new artists/music.

If you like the album, buy it and pay the artist...not to mention permanent ownership.

If it’s only available in redbook CD, so be it...

If there is a 24bit studio master available, burn it on blu-ray and achieve the highest fidelity possible.

Getting into all the nitty gritty of error propagation, containment whatever and arguing it with all the supposed digital geniuses could drive someone nuts soon enough. No one here with the requisite engineering background hacked into or looked under the hood of everything to be sure of everything...

Yes but is it “high end” TCP/IP? 😬