@brianlucey , I respect your knowledge and appreciate your response, as I agree with almost everything you said. But the truth is for many listeners, the sound is 1st, and the performance is 2ndary. People are specifically interested in spatiality, imaging and musician localization, the abbreviation is sound staging. Where they (the musicians) are located on a stage; how large is the stage; how close can the listener get to the stage. I do question you statement "being good at playing instruments is really not that important". Totally disagree with you. From your position, can you take a mediocre guitar riff and make it better somehow through electronic manipulation? Autotune does this for vocalists. I am excepting that people are enjoying listening to music for all sorts of reasons, and it does not need to coincide with mine. My purpose in enjoying the music I listen to, 1st and foremost, is the performance...the musicianship and the composition. Listening to "Can't You Hear Me Knocking", am I mistaking that the musicianship is not real, and I am listening to studio manipulation to enhance the "playing". Is Mick Taylor not at his best laying down his guitar track. Maybe, because when I saw the Stones live when he was still in the band, his solo work was not quite as good, though still enjoyable. If all of the musicians I enjoy listening to are being manipulated at your end to sound their best, well I am disappointed that I am being fooled. My best, always, MrD.
So, a reviewer just said something I need to talk about.
I will not mention the reviewer, nor the specific equipment being reviewed, but this statement was made, talking about sax and strings: "the strings had real body, and it sounded like real strings being played". The tonality of the instruments was what he/she was talking about. I get this. The tone, the spatiality of the instruments, the stage that was presented. All well and good. What about the engagement between the listener and the musician. I have stated so many times here, ad nauseam, that the most important aspect of music listening, for me (and not enough with other listeners) is the "playing of the instruments". The artistry of the musician behind those strings. I just don’t get it. When I listen to Jeff Beck (RIP), using him as an example, what I am attracted to, FIRST & FOREMOST, is his PLAYING. Reviewers talk about "sound". Most people here talk about "sound". I spend more time now on other sites, that speak about the music playing and, the compositions. For whatever reasons, I seem to be realizing, that A’gon members, as so many reviewers, talk about sound. They very rarely mention MY most important aspect of listening. The musicianship and the compositions. Another rant from me. What are your thoughts on this? How do you listen? What do you listen for/to? What does your system convey to you? I know I am out of line again, but........My best to everyone. Always, MrD.
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@mrdecibel I work on and listen to 2500 songs a year, in every style from every country, done by every level of experience in the production team from beginners to experts for over 25 years, and I get paid to enhance the connection between the listener, to enhance what it is that they will enjoy… some of these are Grammy winners many of them are top-tier productions. I think I know what people listen to and what they listen for and what they might say about it when they actually are thinking or feeling something else, that’s what I do every day at the highest level From your words it’s clear to me that you are neither skilled or objective or experienced in getting outside of yourself enough to understand how other people listen. In "truth", if we must, the majority of people listen to and through the vocal melody. When you get beyond that, there is the rhythm which is essential for the popularity of music. It has to have a great groove/beat and everyone listens to the groove, whether they know it or not they feel/experience the Groove and it matters to them in terms of their interest. After the top line and the groove, it is absolutely beyond you or even me with my credentials and experience to project how other people perceive things Could be any number of qualities in infinite combinations that draws them in
I gave a roadmap for understanding why the conversation that you observe is about the sound and you are certainly welcome to disagree, yet I don’t think you’re as smart as you think you are :) Audiophile listeners specifically do not compose or create or record or mix or master music, but they do create with the building of their system… It is a form of creativity and the currency of conversation is "sound" yes that’s true And that fact, as I’ve explained, doesn’t add up to what you are saying. It’s just the thing that you’re observing people talking about if you are able to peer inside of the soul and mind of other people, you should be in a totally different field, there would be a lot of money to be made :)
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Brian, you would be surprised at the number of folks I interact with, many admitting to putting the musicianship and the composition 2nd in what he/she listens for, and those, that do not admit to it. I admire your passion, and your work, but I started this thread because of my point. I have my specialty, although not as high on the bar as yours, so if you feel I am not smart, that is your prerogative. But, at my end, you are blind as to what I am experiencing out here in the high end audio world. I have nothing more to say, other than keep up the great work! My best, always, MrD. |
Again, I'm not doubting what you're observing, I'm saying you're conclusion as to what that observation means is incorrect audiophile listeners (whoever that group may be ) are building a system based around the "sound" of the system because that is their creative contribution, that is an absolute fact… That fact does not lead me to the conclusion that you have come to. of course you're going to come across people discussing the sound of the system that doesn't mean it's the only thing that matters or it's the primary thing. It's just the primary thing when you're talking with them or when they're out shopping.
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This is beginning to sound like a circular argument. I also believe we have come along way, baby. What I mean is, we lose sight of the fact that the quality of modern gear in general is pretty good. When a reviewer tells me a certain piece of kit helped him achieve a greater connection to the artist or to his art, well that’s just a high compliment. If it happens to be a tune I’m familiar with, then we have a common reference point. And if I’ve been moved in a similar way by that artist or that tune, then he and I also now have a connection too. And I have come a step closer to a better understanding of their perspective. For me, listening is an escape. When I catch myself focusing on the sound instead of the music, unless it’s because something is wrong, I attempt to refocus on what’s important: the melody, the lyric, the voice, the mood, the energy. You get the idea.
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