Apple Lossless vs iTunes Plus

You can believe that you can tell the difference 10/10 times. Fundamentals of mathematics and computer science prove unequivocally that you cannot in reality do so

I believe that in reality I can do so. Mathematics or computer science may have nothing to do why, and perhaps I don't understand it. Yet one file sounds consistently better to me. He actually supplied me with three files initially, and I also had a WAV file I had ripped myself of the same song. I picked out the single file from the four as sounding better, and I had no idea of what he was giving me or why. He just asked that I listen to the three and that I might be surprised by what I heard. The other three files all sounded the same, or too close to make a distinction, but one kept standing out with greater clarity, separation and slightly better bass.

I will give a blind test a try next time I have someone over who's willing to spend the time to conduct it. Heck, I'll give the test to someone who has no clue as to what they're listening to and see what happens. Hey, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I'll be able to pick it out each time. I care as much about mathematics proving me wrong as I would about a tube amp not measuring up well by conventional standards. Ultimately you have to listen to it, and if you like what you are hearing better on one over another, what does it matter? FTR I am not re-ripping my entire library to conform to the convention my friend used. It's actually a royal PITA and I would not consider it. The difference is not that profound, even though I can clearly hear it.

Ping me off the thread if you are interested in the files in question. I can post them later on and give you a link to download, listen and analyze the two files yourself. As I said, my system is pretty resolving and I'm quite sure I cannot tell any difference at all on my office system. So it will not surprise me at all if you cannot hear a difference on a less resolving system. I'd be curious to hear what you come up with. Maybe I need to up my medication!

Mathematics or computer science may have nothing to do why, and perhaps I don't understand it.

It is probably related to software bugs. If the algorithms were bit transparent then it ought to sound the same.

It very well could be, Shadorne. I don't know...I can only tell you what I hear.

I seem recall reading something recently about the newest version of iTunes making some difference in the sound of ripped files of the same types.

It very well could be, Shadorne. I don't know...I can only tell you what I hear.

And I don't doubt you. Here is a manufacturer's explanation for why differences are sometimes apparent when "in theory" there should be NO difference.

It turns out that most software is sadly lacking and sloppily made (but if you use anything made by Bill Gates then you won't be surprised at all -surely you will have noticed obvious deficiencies/glitches on a regular basis, so it should really come as no surprise that bugs often affect PC audio too!).

IMHO, the biggest pitfall of using a PC system and a DAC is the buggy SOFTWARE problems. This is one of the reasons why I still use software to control hardware to read redbook CD's rather than stream stuff from a hard drive using software. I simply don't trust the poor quality of engineering of software engineers (besides most programmers aren't even real engineers)

So iTunes 6 may work fine until you get the latest "upgrade" and then unwittingly you are suddenly listening to inferior reproduction due to a bug. (so even Steve Jobs can't get it right and you, as a poor user, don;t even know that something has gone wrong until you A/B something very carefully and your ears tell you something is badly wrong)

See also this

Shadorne -

Here's a further, long thread on Head-Fi that supports your contention that the software may be responsible. I have not read the whole thread, but suspected as much myself given the difference in the qualities of the two files I have (EAC vs iTunes older version than current). I confess, this stuff is way over my head - I'm just reporting on what I hear and the little I do think I understand.

I participate in the Modwright forums over on Audiocircle because I use a MW Transporter. The folks in the know over there seem to much prefer using dbPoweramp to rip files.