Discuss The Viv Lab Rigid Arm

@chayro The intended purpose for arm shopping is to locate a candidate for my MC2000. I need to know arm mass on the Viv arm and so far I have been unable to locate that information. Sent an email to the companies official one over a week ago, never got a response. I will stand pat with my DV505 until I can get a bit more information. 

@rauliruegas , I did not say that all new technology is better, but as a whole technology moves on and the equipment we have today is far superior the the equipment we had in the 60's. The trend is unmistakable. 

@pindac , I do not deal in snobbery pindac. That comment is just an excuse to dismiss opinions you do not like because you have no other way to counter.  The Sun rises in the east and sets in the west. You can argue about the definition of east and west but the Sun comes up over there and goes down over yonder. And, you can not do a damn thing about it.

@neonknight , Buying the Viv arm is a huge mistake. You might as well buy a Yugo. 

Neon, you might try buying a Viv tonearm by mail order from Tokyo. The exchange rate between the US dollar and the yen is at an all time high, meaning with one dollar you can now buy more than ¥140. Our son has lived in Tokyo since around 2008, and this is the most favorable exchange rate I have ever seen. in fact, we recently sent him some money to buy an apartment in Tokyo. There are very reputable dealers in Tokyo who may be willing to send you an arm, and I might add the prices in Tokyo last time I was there were 30 to 40% less for Viv, compared to the US retail prices. One of my only reservations about buying a Viv, since it is a bit of an unknown quantity, is the very high cost that puts it at a price level similar to very fine overhung tonearms that I would normally avoid due to cost. Not so in Tokyo.

I would try Yodibashi Camera or Hifido, as vendors. Yodibashi is an amazing electronics department store, the likes of which do not exist in the USA. Problem might be that almost no salesperson speaks English. Hifido does have an export business and does speak English.

I liked and agree with almost everything that Raul wrote in his most recent post. Interestingly, I see nothing in there that suggests that one could not gain a great deal of pleasure from a Viv tonearm or that a Viv tonearm or some other underhung tonearm might work better in general than a good overhung tonearm. This thread has devolved into an age old argument between people who go by measurements (or believe they do) and people who go by sensory input, when it comes to judging audio gear. It’s an old argument, and it will never end.  In this instance, I do not see a reason for acrimony. We are all after the same thing. I am only urging an open mind. Furthermore, I would venture to guess that neither Raul nor Mijostyn is actually making measurements of his audio gear and the signal that comes out of them. They are most likely going by data supplied by manufacturers and their own considerable funds of knowledge about electronics and distortion. But history is replete with instances where measurements lie. In the early days of solid-state amplification, we had amplifiers that measured harmonic distortion in the order of .000001%. The problem was that when people listened to them, it was obvious that they sounded at least not so good if not also terrible. And this was in comparison to tube amplifiers of those days that produced much more harmonic distortion and had much more limited bandwidth, etc, by actual measurement, but were unmistakably preferable for listening purposes. (Probably not everyone agrees, but consider the Phase Linear 700 amplifier.) So I urge you not to be a slave to one particular parameter, TAE in this case. Just listen. Now Raul's and Mijostyn's listening is evidently of a superior quality to the rest of us. And to some degree this can be true, because they are both very experienced audiophiles (never mind about the definition of an audiophile) , and over many years, they have trained their ears to listen for what they perceive to be a sound that most represents reality. Actually this sort of "training" is a natural process for the few of us who first of all attend a lot of live music events in concert halls and clubs and second of all own elaborate home music reproduction systems.  The brain is constantly comparing the two kinds of experience, and if you care enough you want to bring the real one into your home.  But I urge both of them to take a look at themselves and realize that in the end they are listening for something they like, so there's nothing wrongheaded about the "I like it" approach, even when others disagree. (Ten years later, anyone's "I like it" might be a much better informed opinion than it is today, if you continue to develop your listening acumen and your system.)  One could argue whether either Raul or Mijo has superior judgement based on listening skills, but they are just like the rest of us, some of whom are more canny than others because of putting in the work.  Even experienced audio professionals, and I know a few, guys who can and do measure with instruments, because they have to make a living selling good sounding stuff, are nevertheless striving to figure out what sorts of measurement actually correlate with that sense of verisimilitude that any good and eager audiophile is seeking.

Furthermore, I would venture to guess that neither Raul nor Mijostyn is actually making measurements of his audio gear and the signal that comes out of them. They are most likely going by data supplied by manufacturers and their own considerable funds of knowledge about electronics and distortion. But history is replete with instances where measurements lie. In the early days of solid-state amplification, we had amplifiers that measured harmonic distortion in the order of .000001%.

FWIW, times have changed and for the better. We can now measure the differences we hear between components- if the knowledge is there to know what to look for and how to do the measurements. IOW if the measurements are done properly they don't lie.

Time hasn't changed human nature though.

Drawing the line between what we hear and what we can now measure is likely to draw ire from both the subjective and objective camps. The very idea! But if you want to get down to knowing what's really going on, that's what has to be done. The acrimony between the two camps has to end.