Has anyone heard Fink Team KIM speakers?

Hi @weebeesdad 

It just so happens that I can offer some insight into your situation. I recently moved into a newly refurbished old house, and while the room in which I listen is decent sized, I have no choice but to place the KIMS along the long wall. This, in turn, means that I can only comfortably place them almost exactly three feet (front plane) from the rear wall.

At first, I did experience some bass bloat, but through trial and error, and a fair number of tweaks, I was able to improve the situation significantly. I was not able to eliminate it entirely, but am now at the stage where I am not aware of any issues with well-recorded music.

Perhaps I didn't update my system profile, but I am using a Circle Labs A200 integrated, which does utilize two tubes in the preamp stage. It drives the KIMS well, though I have not tried other amps, so it would be impossible for me to compare.

If you are able to sit far enough away from the speakers (3m+), the image height is fine. They are designed to disperse the sound upwards (tilted), and create a good-sized image. If one has a tighter window, it can be mitigated by reducing the tilt angle.

One of the interesting aspects of working to mitigate the bass issue was that I became very aware of the distinctions, in terms of bass, in various recordings. It's not simply a matter of genre, but how the bass was recorded and mixed. Good recordings present no problems now, and that includes a high percentage of the CDs that I own.

I could understand if you are reluctant to go with them under the circumstances, but I will say that I have no regrets. The bass is tight and clean with good recordings, and the small percentage that still sound bloated I can easily live without.

If you have any interest in the various steps that I took to mitigate the problem, I'll be happy to describe them.

Cheers!

Thanks for your reply, @whipsaw.

I sit a little over 10 feet (3M) away from the speakers and the speakers again about 3 feet (front plane) from the front wall. The room is not small, 16.5 feet wide, 31 feet long with 11 foot ceilings, but is laid out in an open floor plan, the first third as the living room thus the furniture induced speaker placement limitation. As aesthetics are important for both my wife and I the use of traditional room treatments are not an option, for better or for worse. I would be interested to hear how you have mitigated the bass bloat issue in your own listening space.

Thanks again for your insights.

You’re welcome.

First, I have a low media sideboard between the speakers, and a large flat-screen TV on the wall. Neither are optimal, but with some movement of the sideboard away from the wall, there was a small improvement. For serious listening, I also have a fabric cover for the TV which improves the SQ by reducing reflections.

Secondly, I am not a cable skeptic, but only had one remotely high-end power cable in my system until fairly recently. It is a Shunyata Black mamba CX HC which I bought used some time ago, and use with the amp. The cables that I was using for my DAC and CD transport were a cut above basic, but nothing special. I was also using an Isotek Sirius power strip, with one of their lower-end cords to the wall.

As I was grappling with the bass issue, I spontaneously decided one day to switch the DAC and transport cords just for the hell of it, and lo and behold, the bass tightened up. I really was not expecting such a change, but because it happened, I decided then to upgrade, and bought a used Hijiri Nagomi power cord to use with my DAC. Further improvement noted.

I know that the skeptics will assume confirmation bias, etc., but this was my experience, and I do not consider it to have been subtle. I have no clue how changes in power cords might produce such a change, but they did. I then got a very good deal on an Ansuz Maniz8 X-TC "power distributor", and replaced the Isotek strip with it. I am confident that there was an overall improvement (likely a lowered noise floor, primarily), but can’t say for sure that the bass in particular was affected.

Then, there was the fine-tuning of the speaker placement. After many small changes, I ended up following the basic parameters suggested by Jim Smith in the video on this thread:

Jim Smith speaker placement

and found a noticeable improvement. Basically, instead of an equilateral triangle, Smith suggests that the distance between the speakers should be ~.83 the distance of the tweeters to the ears. So, a bit closer together, and it worked very nicely in my case. Again, I’m not referring only to the bass, but there was clearly improvement in the overall sound. I also fiddled with the toe-in, and ended up with a very good image based on the tweeters aiming roughly at my shoulders. I have noted that FinkTeam tends to toe the KIMs in at shows, as well.

Finally, I have found the integral stands of the KIM to be very well designed, and I don’t believe that there is any vibration between the cabinets and the top of the stands. The spikes are adjustable, which is good, but I found that it is very important, and particularly in terms of bass response, that they be well-tightened. That may seem obvious, but I did some belated, final tightening that caused an audible improvement.

The type of furnishings that you have are also likely to play a role. Sound absorbing fabrics and wood are likely to help mitigate the issue better than glass and other reflective surfaces. When my girlfriend’s (solid side-wall) oak desk was delivered, and placed only about 20" to the left of one of the KIMs, I was worried that it might emphasize the issue. But to the contrary, it actually seemed to help a bit.

Ultimately, a sealed speaker design would likely be best for the type of room limitations that we are discussing. But as happy as I was with the Harbeth that I was using previously, I prefer the KIMs, and am willing to sacrifice optimum playback of poorly recorded albums, given the superb sound and dynamics that they produce with well-recorded ones.

@whipsaw - You've obviously put a lot of effort into your equipment and room set up with great attention to detail. I'm sure it has paid off and that your system and the Kims sound fantastic. The Circle Labs amp seems to be getting a lot of positive press so no doubt that contributes to your system's success. 

I was unable to make it to CAF a few months ago where the Kims were being demoed, hopefully in 2023 they will once again be at one of the East Coast shows and I can have a listen.

Thanks again for sharing your experience with them. 

@weebeesdad 

A quick update. I belatedly tried a tweak that I obviously should have applied long ago – vibration control under the amp. I got a very good deal on four Stillpoints, which, after plenty of research, I chose from amongst the various brand options. Wowsers! Not only the bass, but they greatly enhanced the A200's overall performance, and, by extension, that of the speakers.

I won't go as far as to say that the issue that we have been discussing is fully resolved, but I am now much closer to hearing the full potential of the KIMs, and am very happy indeed.

What this underscores is that likely both the choice of amp, and, at least in some cases, vibration control, can have a major impact. I suppose that the use of tubes in the A200 is why it may be particularly sensitive to vibration.