Jazz for aficionados

**** the most important element in music, which is musical time out of metronomical or measured time, ****

That’s right. I would qualify that comment by streamlining the idea even further to simply “time”. Time is the most important element of music; and not only time outside a metronomic reference. It has to be all inclusive as far as possibilities. There are times in a musical performance of a particular work when metronomic time is precisely what the music demands; whether it be specified in the score, or whether it is an aspect of a conductor’s vision for the work. It is the musical cohesion and logic between the two polarities (to use your word) and all points in between that make a great performance. It is true that in Jazz this idea is “at the heart of what improvising musicians (do)”, In a much more subtle and much more controlled way it is the same and essential for the written score. In orchestral music, the magic happens when there is agreement with, or at least respect, for the conductor’s concept. That Bernstein/Corialan is a great example. Not only is it clearly heard, one can see the agreement and enthusiasm in the players’ body language, No matter the level of professionalism on the part of the players, there is always a bit extra given when they “get” what the conductor is trying to say; or, agree that the conductor is allowing what the composer is trying to say to be expressed. This is not always the case. In a way, the same thing happens in Jazz.

We are on the same page i think ...

Thanks for your adding remarks...

For sure when i distinguished musical time and physically measured time, i was also speaking of polarites like un the usual Extreme opposite concept of time polarities between Furt, and Celi...Bernstein being more in the middle and for me more Beethovenian in his Egmont than Celi for sure... But speaking about this polarity between Furt and Celi , I was speaking about classical interpreted written musical score...

This polarity between musical time and physical measured time is so important in jazz , i discovered it when i read about a black musician in Us , i forgot who, who was instructed by an African musician about the necessity for the music to "roll" ... He tested this african musician with pieces of european music, and often the African did say "it does not roll" even with some jazz sometimes..

Intrigued he decided to go to Africa...And the end of his story is that he finally understood what "rolling means"...

I interpreted this anecdote by listening to the way some interpretation of playing jazz musicians goes the fine line between this polarity: between measured repeated intervals of physical usual time and musical time sentences and beating "rhymes" in and out of usual flowing time... The pattern is a rolling resonant waves for me something akin to poetical time and resonance in speech compared to prosaic means...The African Youruba speaking drums are spectacular example of this in the hand of a master able to make the drum roll and speak and certainly one of the inspiration in the black soul origin of jazz......Time is no more flowing so much but metamorphosing itself into being ...Time unchained rolls...

I dont know if my post make sense for a seasonned musician... I am not one at all... I only listen.... 😁😊

After the master playing of my above post, here we have a clear explanation.... Fascinating...

I think the origin of humanity is humor victorious over fear in creation, the recreation of time in ceremony where music and speech reunited again recreating man itself and men together...

A remark about drums in general : So astounding and refined is Indian tabla drumming, and it is refined and deep in musical meaning and with metaphysical  meaning, i was always flabbergasted how African traditional drummer evoke something way more deep in a sense  in their "rolling speaking" way about our human origin more than about cosmology like in the Indian case...

There is at the end no personal  taste so much who moves us toward music  but more a thirst for  learning  experience at the end...

We are, and have been, in complete agreement.  I would only add that what we are discussing is at the heart of the often mentioned quote:  “There are only two kinds of music…..good music and the other kind”.  This from one of the greatest Jazz musicians.  Point is, Classical music (and all others) can “roll”.

I think Bach is the greatest composer because he wote the music who resist the more and the better to "unrolling" interpretation...

😁😊