Musetec (LKS) MH-DA005 DAC


Some history: I was the OP on a four year old thread about the Chinese LKS MH-DA004 DAC. It achieved an underground buzz. The open architecture of its predecessor MH-DA003 made it the object of a lot of user mods, usually to its analog section, rolling op amps or replacing with discrete. The MH-DA004 with its new ESS chips and JFET analog section was called better then the modified older units. It has two ES9038pro DAC chips deliberately run warm, massive power supply, powered Amanero USB board, JFET section, 3 Crystek femtosecond clocks, Mundorf caps, Cardas connectors, etc., for about $1500. For this vinyl guy any reservation about ESS chips was resolved by the LKS implimentaion, but their revelation of detail was preserved, something that a listener to classic music especially appreciated. I made a list of DACs (many far more expensive) it was compared favorably to in forums. Modifications continued, now to clocks and caps. Components built to a price can be improved by costlier parts and the modifiers wrote glowingly of the SQ they achieved.

Meanwhile, during the 4 years after release of the MH-DA004, LKS (now Musetec) worked on the new MH-DA005 design, also with a pair of ES9038pro chips. This time he used more of the best components available. One torroidal transformer has silver plated copper. Also banks of super capacitors that act like batteries, solid silver hookup wire, 4 femtoclocks each costing multiples of the Crysteks, a revised Amanero board, more of the best European caps and a new partitioned case. I can't say cost NO object, but costs well beyond. A higher price, of course. Details at http://www.mu-sound.com/DA005-detail.html

The question, surely, is: How does it sound? I'm only going to answer indirectly for the moment. I thought that the MH-DA004 was to be my last DAC, or at least for a very long time. I was persuaded to part with my $$ by research, and by satisfaction with the MH-DA004. Frankly, I have been overwhelmed by the improvement; just didn't think it was possible. Fluidity, clarity, bass extension. A post to another board summed it up better than I can after listening to piano trios: "I have probably attended hundreds of classical concerts (both orchestral and chamber) in my life. I know what live sounds like in a good and bad seat and in a good and mediocre hall. All I can say is HOLY CRAP, this sounds like the real thing from a good seat in a good hall. Not an approximation of reality, but reality."

melm

Good morning

without going too far into the diatribe that emerges from the differences between objective and subjective observations, I can conclude that the dilemma will never find a square: as ASR mistakenly thinks that reality can be completely represented through elementary mathematical modeling (at too childish levels if you think you can model a melody with a 1 kHz sine wave). This is completely insane, it's like comparing two atues based only on top speed on a straight ...

The situation that is embarrassing for me concerns the data published on the Musetec website:
Dynamic range> 136dB
Distortion <0.0002%

With those found by ASR:
Dynamic range = 126dB
Distortion = 0.0016%

even if I do not rely on the measurements, the published data must be truthful, otherwise I will lose confidence in the device manufacturer

Thank you kairosman, amreicanspirit, and batvac 2. For all you people telling me I should have put into my system an listen I never had physical possession of dac. The unit was shipped from China to the west coast for the review. I live on the east coast. For all parties involved it was decided to ship the unit to Jason at Midwest instead of to me for audition. The shipping of the unit back and forth was gonna start getting kind of expensive so we all decided that our solution to the problem best served everyone. Again jason an jinbo have acted professionally.  The ess hump as stated earlier has been addressed an solved by many dac manufacturers. The jitter issue an the spec issues need to be addressed by jinbo, which he has stated he will correct. I’m no shill for anyone. Again I find this asr acrimony almost humorous. I certainly do not have a problem enjoying the content of audiogon and asr. There are a lot of knowledge and kind people on both sites that are always willing to help other music lovers enjoy their hobby. There are also some peeps that are louder than they are smarter. Everyone just enjoy your music.

dear toddk31

I find your behavior perfect, I have nothing to say. thank you on behalf of all for allowing us to test your unit.

about your choice to return it, ditto.

I own a modified dx7 pro topping with OP Muses, a Gustrard x26 Pro and this week comes the MUSETC MH DA500.

I will perform blind listening tests by connecting them via SUPRA USB2 0.7m cable to a mcintosh mc152 amplifier via OEHLBACH XXL XLR 0.5m cable and to B&W 804 D3 speakers via QED Genesis Silver Spiral 1.5m cable.

soon I will be able to offer you my honest consideration based solely on blind listening (plus that of about twenty friends)

I agree the issues ASR measurements uncovered are problematic, plenty of dacs out there, many far less expensive superior measuring.

 

Which brings into question; how impactful are these measurements to ultimate sound quality? With so many finding 005 sound quality to be fine, how can this be? To repeat, would the 005 be improved with better measurements? Could 005 sound quality be optimized with these exact measurments? Perhaps at some point in 005 development, measured superior, sound quality inferior?

 

In response to any fair evaluation of audio component, I cannot account for anyone judging product without listening. These are audio products, manufactured exclusively for listening pleasure, not laboratory equipment meant for calibration to some fixed value.

Any OP knows that after launching a thread into the air here it's impossible to account for what direction it may take.  Nevertheless, as this extensive thread is now one year old, permit this OP a few words.  

The designer/manufacturer of this DAC has produced several DACs over the past 10 years or so.  They have been sold world-wide, though mostly in Asia, principally in Hong Kong.  Over the years this very small producer has gained a following. His following has been uniquely on the basis of his DACs' sound quality.  There is no promotion; there is no hype; there is no advertising.  In all the reading I've done I have never before come across a set of measurements for the DACs going back to the LKS MH-DA002.  Several folks here, including me, have had an LKS MH-DA004 and on the basis of listening, basically said to themselves: if this is what he can do for about $1500, I MUST hear what he can do for $3200.  Others, here on this list and elsewhere, bought this DAC based on the reports only of sound quality.  I think it is fair to say that, by and large, they like what they have heard and they are quite satisfied with the purchase.  They have written as much.  Their DACs sound just as good this week as they did last week.

The designer has written that he designs by ear and not by measurement.  He says designing for measurement is realtively easy.  At various stages he says he made changes that could improve measurements but reversed them if the sound quality, as he heard it, was not as good.  If that makes people very uncomfortable, they should probably look elsewhere for a DAC.  Over the course of this audio hobby, and some of us have been into it for a long time, that approach to design used to be lauded.  The designer has given an example in the lack of any feedback in his analog stage.  A lack of feedback is often advertised, and is generally understood to yield better sound quality but poorer measurements.  Op amp chips with feedback are thought to yield a kind of clean but sterile sound, well recognized in several popular DACs on the market.   In many other areas of audio, decisions are often made in favor of devices with poorer measurements than alternatives.  That would include tubes and analog sound generally.

No one here has ever said that the Musetec is the best of all DACs.  Like any DAC it may not be for everyone.  So please, let's keep it civil.  If someone says he likes another, perhaps even less expensive, DAC better than the Musetec let's just accept that and move on.  

And can we please move beyond toddk31's adventure.  That seems to have been a very personal set of decisions, and it is over.  It certainly has opened up a useful discussion of measurements versus listening as criteria for audio component design and selection, and I do not mean to discourage continuing dialog on that.  It's as old as audio as I wrote before noting that early solid state electronics was "proven" by measurements to outperform high quality tube units.  Modern solid state?  Modern tubes? Who knows?

Finally I agree about the measurements on the Musetec web site and have written to the maker about that.  I know nothing about business practices in China and what criteria obtain there.  That site is written in Chinese; the English is Google translate.  Nonetheless, it is what it is and should be changed or deleted.