I don't want to beat a dead horse but I'm bugged.

Thus it draws the linear minded conservative types to it like a zealot is drawn to correcting error as it sees danger to itself in those differences. This mind type will NEVER stop trying to kill it off with all the force of it’s being.

Really now. I have read some of the political discussions here. Pretty conservative bunch.

Your post, a hostile diatribe at best, at worst is ultimately an attack meant to silence an opposing view while disguising it as freedom fighting. Your post lacks humanity, understanding, and most of all shows a lack of creativity of thought in your inability to understand an opposing view.

There is creative people in all forums....But the zealots predominate in all charcterised oriented forum...

ASR is measured oriented....

Audiogon is subjective listening very oriented...

Psycho-acoustic is NEITHER of these orentations alone...But their concrete correlation in a room...

It seems to escape most that sound cannot be explained by subjective experience

nor by electrical measures on the linearity response of processors etc...

For the I. Q. spiritual factors and cultural environment and education play a greater role, openness of the mind and senses, than strictly only I.Q.

John Stuart Mill endowed with a superhuman I.Q. is not Leonardo Da Vinci nor Goethe, not Swedenborg and not Ramanujan nor Grothendieck neither Bach...His I.Q. is the same or near them....

And the highest I.Q. ever measured, he is out of any measuring scale in fact, some give him 250 or 300, which seems plausible after reading his biography, William James Sidis was very much studied in the golden age of I.Q. testing just before and after the second world war in the US decided at 12 that he never will created new technology for agressive "apes"... Freedom was his near focus and cultures...He spoke nearly any language after few weeks... He teached in a public confrence at 11 years old at Harvard fourth dimensional geometry in 1912 answering question about the new relativity theory and his time conception as the fourth dimension compared to his own spatial interpretation......This is all redacted verifiable facts ....😁😊

He deduced in a book i  have read the existence of black hole from his own thermodynamical thinking alone... He predicted the existemce of anti matter and the existence of biological matter by his own deduction....He was 16 years old and published the book under alias at twenty years old... he despised in an obsessive manner all aspect of publicity...He published books under aliases... Anyway, who among human will be proud to beat an ape at chess? His life is science fiction stuff... I speak about for those curious...His talents will humbled every one among us who think he is intelligent... Try him...It is an exrercise in humility for those who think their 20 points over the 120 barrier is a big deal... 😁😊It is not... It is only the door to a profession sorry...

Creativity is linked to the freedom of the mind soul and spirit more than to i.Q. But for sure people who struggle mentally are chained by their too numerous limits more than others...Thats all there is between I.Q. and creativity passed this 120 I.Q. barrier...

If I tried to post at ASR, similar to how I post here at audiogon.....I'd be removed in almost seconds.

 

What I see being unapologetically not accepted is posts regarding listening reports where any difference by nature of the component changes must be very small, and the listening test is done with full knowledge of what is being listened to.

I will ask, do you have proof that their insisted methodology is wrong. Not feelings, not personal experiences, not unsubstantiated articles, but solid proof their insisted methodology is wrong?

I get the impression that if I demonstrated to them that things they did not accept were audulible are, they would be amenable to the idea especially if they participated. They would then analyse it 10 ways from Sunday and figure out why.

I am coming to the conclusion the opposite is not true. Even if it was shown that you could not hear a difference you are certain exists I don't think you would accept the results.

If I tried to post at ASR, similar to how I post here at audiogon.....I’d be removed in almost seconds.

Being naive i tried the same thing, but i suffered the same circonstances... 😊 They recognise an amateur audiophile like me when they see one so to speak... Anyway the technological only mentality and hardwire focus is a limitation not less than people obsessed here by a gear brand name "colors"...

At least here i am not ridiculed for my creativity...

i understood at least how to control my room, how to decrease the noise floor, and to control vibrations by my own devices... So "nuts" they seems for some of them ....Some are pure acoustic and simple acoustic principles..

The most important one being:

For speaker A and speaker B there is also for ear Alpha a phantom speaker minus a and for ear Beta a phantom speaker minus b... These phantom speakers are real not only an illusion they are concrete "reflected" co-creator of the soundscape recorded in some album and emerge reflecting our own room control for each ear... The problem is to learn how control these speakers images with sound pressure level and frequencies timing waves front and reflected one for your listening position...I used different devices for that...

I used a foldable screen and acoustic crosstalk and acoustic crosfeed... In my primitive but effective way... Diffusers and resonators for sure also...Ordinary passive material treatment come first for sure but the real work begin AFTER minimal passive material treatment..... No headphones can compete at the end...

In a word, audio superior experience in sound quality does not end with the measuring process associated with a design and does not end after buying it and listening to some design picked by ears among all those who are good enough ...

Audio superior experience comes AFTER mechanical, electrical, acoustical and psycho-acoustical controls are put in place, never mind the price tag of the gear ...Never mind the design "color" or specs sheets, if it is not TOO bad design to begin with for sure...

Then....... 😁😊

Dont argue to death about Objective/subjective attitudes, study acoustic vocabulary instead....In acoustic vocabulary all which is objective will be correlated, at least in principle,  with all that is subjective...