I don't want to beat a dead horse but I'm bugged.


I just can't clear my head of this. I don't want to start a measurements vs listening war and I'd appreciate it if you guys don't, but I bought a Rogue Sphinx V3 as some of you may remember and have been enjoying it quite a bit. So, I head over to AVS and read Amir's review and he just rips it apart. But that's OK, measurements are measurements, that is not what bugs me. I learned in the early 70s that distortion numbers, etc, may not be that important to me. Then I read that he didn't even bother listening to the darn thing. That is what really bugs me. If something measures so poorly, wouldn't you want to correlate the measurements with what you hear? Do people still buy gear on measurements alone? I learned that can be a big mistake. I just don't get it, never have. Can anybody provide some insight to why some people are stuck on audio measurements? Help me package that so I can at least understand what they are thinking without dismissing them completely as a bunch of mislead sheep. 

128x128russ69

If I tried to post at ASR, similar to how I post here at audiogon.....I'd be removed in almost seconds.

 

 

What I see being unapologetically not accepted is posts regarding listening reports where any difference by nature of the component changes must be very small, and the listening test is done with full knowledge of what is being listened to.

 

I will ask, do you have proof that their insisted methodology is wrong. Not feelings, not personal experiences, not unsubstantiated articles, but solid proof their insisted methodology is wrong?

 

I get the impression that if I demonstrated to them that things they did not accept were audulible are, they would be amenable to the idea especially if they participated. They would then analyse it 10 ways from Sunday and figure out why.

 

I am coming to the conclusion the opposite is not true. Even if it was shown that you could not hear a difference you are certain exists I don't think you would accept the results.

If I tried to post at ASR, similar to how I post here at audiogon.....I’d be removed in almost seconds.

Being naive i tried the same thing, but i suffered the same circonstances... 😊 They recognise an amateur audiophile like me when they see one so to speak... Anyway the technological only mentality and hardwire focus is a limitation not less than people obsessed here by a gear brand name "colors"...

At least here i am not ridiculed for my creativity...

i understood at least how to control my room, how to decrease the noise floor, and to control vibrations by my own devices... So "nuts" they seems for some of them ....Some are pure acoustic and simple acoustic principles..

The most important one being:

For speaker A and speaker B there is also for ear Alpha a phantom speaker minus a and for ear Beta a phantom speaker minus b... These phantom speakers are real not only an illusion they are concrete "reflected" co-creator of the soundscape recorded in some album and emerge reflecting our own room control for each ear... The problem is to learn how control these speakers images with sound pressure level and frequencies timing waves front and reflected one for your listening position...I used different devices for that...

I used a foldable screen and acoustic crosstalk and acoustic crosfeed... In my primitive but effective way... Diffusers and resonators for sure also...Ordinary passive material treatment come first for sure but the real work begin AFTER minimal passive material treatment..... No headphones can compete at the end...

 

 

In a word, audio superior experience in sound quality does not end with the measuring process associated with a design and does not end after buying it and listening to some design picked by ears among all those who are good enough ...

Audio superior experience comes AFTER mechanical, electrical, acoustical and psycho-acoustical controls are put in place, never mind the price tag of the gear ...Never mind the design "color" or specs sheets, if it is not TOO bad design to begin with for sure...

Then....... 😁😊

Dont argue to death about Objective/subjective attitudes, study acoustic vocabulary instead....In acoustic vocabulary all which is objective will be correlated, at least in principle,  with all that is subjective...

@deludedaudiophile

If you watch the video about creativity, (about an hour long) you’d find that not only lawyers are entirely non creative, but that it is the same largely (very largely, bordering on overtly) for scientists as well. this is partially due to the aspect of rigor and social cohesion among the group.

But that, overall, as a group, scientists are unoriginal and not creative.

At the peak of such a group, came the few imaginative creative renaissance men (at the time it was all men, relatively), who, using their creativity CREATED science as a system of well, systematic rigor. they walked right into the depths of the chaos and pulled a system of rigor and order out of it and then formalized it, for the benefit of humanity.

then, they created a different, less evolved rung of it, called engineering, where those who could not deal with the complexities of even minor creativity and imagination, could have a place to belong and be in the world, to feel good and comfortable and to move things forward in a way that satisfied them.

That system of engineering became the orignal emergent formalization of academic systems, in Bavaria in the approximately early 1720’s through the 1750’s. It’s why the Germans, to some.. have the best polytechnic schools, to this day. Formalized Engineering is their invention.

if we go down a rung, we get to those who think similarly, within the scope of how minds work, or are categorized (loosely) we end up with dogmatism replacing the idea of learning and knowing, due to metal speed differentials, different orientations in varied technical aspects, etc. (took different things in school)

If we go down another rung, we make it to the dogmatically minded who scream ’science, fool!’, but don’t know what it means, and spend some of their time crushing beer cans on their forehead, as a replacement for academic pursuit. These are the foot soldiers of projected violence, on (audio) forums, for the most part.

If you watch the video, it might be that we can’t understand each other at all, and never will. not in this life or the next. Maybe, maybe not. Can’t really tell from here.

Nothing is definite, fact’s don’t exist and all of life is illusory, ephemeral and entirely subjective. Where..there is only one single FACT in existence... there are no others. Just the one fact exists--which is that facts DO NOT exist. Quantum paradox comes to life in the parent and progenitor of science..ie..philosophy.

Philosophy OWNS science’s ass. Totally. Irrevocably so. Philosophy and the rigors of logic in complex extremis, is what created, framed.. and gave the playground of existence TO science. Those renaissance men created the concept of objectivity, or they formalized it, and built it into formalized science, and formalized academia in/and for science.

The creatives (the literal peak and pinnacle of humanity's growth and future, BTW...humanity will literally die without them), their flowery language and all the attendant mess, are the ground that places like ASR walks on. Objectivity, like facts, absolutely does not exist, as your life is entirely subjective. Objectivity is an exercise in rigor in/of logic. Objectivity is a hypnotic game we play with ourselves.

When science runs amok it can and does become weaponized by the dogmatism inherent in a notable percentage of humanity’s minds, and it begins to eat it’s own parents and children.

So, you tell me, how well such hard, logical, reasoned and sensical posting would go over at ASR.

Creativity is linked to the pressure of events and more so on the freedom of the spirit...

There is two brain hemisphere, one is focus in details differentials relative to his mapping ability, the other one focus on background, and wholeness, on the territory not represented by a usable map...context attract him more than the litteral conditioned meaning...

These two hemisphere correlative working, they dont work so much well together in our own civilization after the Renaissance...Said neuro psychatrist Iain McGilchrist...

With transhumanism we assist at the suicide of the free mind...The erasure of the soul...And how many people understand this?

All creative mind are poets... The reason why is hidden in language dynamic between semantic and syntactic and acoustic correlated dynamics...i cannot enter in this here...

Some Nobel chemistry free mind professor wanted that his students wrote a poem, a sonnet, to understand this simple fact...i dont remember his name sorry...he was very wise...

If we read the great mathematician Grothendieck, his two books of 2000 pages are crossed and pollinated by metaphors deep one all the time...Then he would had thought poets with exercise in projective geometry for sure...Visualizing projective geometry is a music on his own with his system of spatial rhymes or operators...A projective sonnet so to speak... 😁😊

How about to teach audiophiles, subjective one and objective one here with mammal morphology like Goethe created it, unbeknownst to most?

Read Wolfgang Schad ,the great morphological zoologist then and prepared to be amazed without words...Or fell out of your chair...Recognizing a mammal for the first time being a grown adult who never seen one really but labelled them by habit is a great schock in one life... Try it...

Same thing apply to plant morphology, or music or complex numbers, knowing them by habit is not knowing them, it is not enough ...It is enough to work and for working in a profession yes, not enough to be creative...

Like said Robert Musil in his magnum opus " A man without qualities" there is two meaning related to the word Genius: one is linked to some ability like in the word engineer, and the other meaning is linked to the Divine ...It is like the two hemispheres version of the same word...