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objective vs. subjective rabbit hole

There are many on this site who advocate, reasonably enough, for pleasing one’s own taste, while there are others who emphasize various aspects of judgment that aspire to be "objective." This dialectic plays out in many ways, but perhaps the most obvious is the difference between appeals to subjective preference, which usually stress the importance of listening, vs. those who insist on measurements, by means of which a supposedly "objective" standard could, at least in principle, serve as arbiter between subjective opinions.

It seems to me, after several years of lurking on and contributing to this forum, that this is an essential crux. Do you fall on the side of the inviolability of subjective preference, or do you insist on objective facts in making your audio choices? Or is there some middle ground here that I’m failing to see?

Let me explain why this seems to me a crux here. Subjective preferences are, finally, incontestable. If I prefer blue, and you prefer green, no one can say either of us is "right." This attitude is generous, humane, democratic—and pointless in the context of the evaluation of purchase alternatives. I can’t have a pain in your tooth, and I can’t hear music the way you do (nor, probably, do I share your taste). Since this forum exists, I presume, as a source of advice from knowledgable and experienced "audiophiles" that less "sophisticated" participants can supposedly benefit from, there must be some kind of "objective" (or at least intersubjective) standard to which informed opinions aspire. But what could possibly serve better as such an "objective standard" than measurements—which, and for good reasons, are widely derided as beside the point by the majority of contributors to this forum?

To put the question succinctly: How can you hope to persuade me of any particular claim to audiophilic excellence without appealing to some "objective" criteria that, because they claim to be "objective," are more than just a subjective preference? What, in short, is the point of reading all these posts if not to come to some sort of conclusion about how to improve one’s system?

snilf
mahgister's avatar
mahgister
15,062 posts
 

I give up. Mahgister, how you can think I’m "attacking" you is a mystery. I did not "equate" you with teo_audio; if anything, I was contrasting the two of you. The point about the dubiousness of the "objective" is the only point of contact here, and that’s a point with a deep and noble pedigree. In any case, do you not recall the several exchanges we’ve had in the past year about Goethe, Kant, Nietzsche...? Does my recognition that you cherish Goethe constitute an "attack" on you?!

Sorry. This isn’t a philosophy forum. I’ll restrain myself in the future.

 

I apologize i misread the "tone" of your post...

My only excuse is that i am a bit sensible this week, i have been harassed for few days now the first time here even in my mailbox by a not very amicable dude...

This explain partially my fast reaction...My english understanding of subtles implicit meaning in the syntax and word choices is sometimes defective too...

Please dont be hurted by my "tone" in my reply to your post...

Here we dont see the emotional context...

And please dont restrain yourself in the future because of me, i will be very sad if you do so...I like discussion ....

I respect you completely and sincerely apologize...

My deepest respect to you...

I wish you the best from my heart....

I am really sorry....

dabel
1,677 posts
 

@mahgister your condescending wording followed by a apologetic approach happens all to often. 

My post happened to be a quirky attempt at humor but you missed the mark. The key words on my toggle switch "trivial pursuit." A trivial pursuit is something for which ones takes an interest but is ultimately inconsequential.

Your focus was on "flat" and it lead from there. Not every post is an argument which needs to be in some form or fashion clarified.

Is it clear?

mahgister's avatar
mahgister
15,062 posts
 

@mahgister your condescending wording followed by a apologetic approach happens all to often.

My post happened to be a quirky attempt at humor but you missed the mark. The key words on my toggle switch "trivial pursuit." A trivial pursuit is something for which ones takes an interest but is ultimately inconsequential.

Your focus was on "flat" and it lead from there. Not every post is an argument which needs to be in some form or fashion clarified.

Is it clear?

You are right and i apologize...

I cannot change my poor mastery of the english language subtleties nor my passionate temper...

But i can sincerely apologize when someone is right...

i hope that this count in my credit...

Because i like to discuss too much and i am afraid this will not be my last apology...

With my deepest respect...

And gratitude for your forgiving ....I cannot negate that i am sometimes condescending and you dont merit that at all...

By the way with rational people i like to be corrected if i am wrong... Truth matter more than anything else in the world...On par with love and freedom his two sisters...

Anyway perhaps my exemple will set a direction for those who never apologize?

😁😊

adasdad's avatar
adasdad
163 posts
 

I’ve enjoyed reading the many intelligent and varied comments in this thread immensely. I got into this hobby over fifty years ago because I like listening to music. The entire thing of watching a guy sitting in his house and sending an electrical charge through a piece of audio gear, and then declaring with complete certainty that said piece of gear is either good or bad, seems to be something that is an outgrowth of our fascination with social media and ad driven excess. It’s funny how you never see someone standing or sitting in an actual laboratory where testing is done for purely scientific purposes. 

dabel
1,677 posts
 

No ill feelings harbored here mahgister, only a outsider observing outcomes in search of the ever illusive "audio nirvana." I'm well aware of your age, love of discussion and language barrier which leads me to believe ... you're a lost cause :-)

Let me refresh your memory a bit. I'm the guy who offered a hot bowl of kick butt  homemade chicken noodle soup when you were feeling under the weather.

Good day

 

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