The sound quality from DACs - is it all the same?

@lanx0003  The $360 DAC was the SMSL SU-8 v.2 Anniversary Edition.

@asctim

I would refine what you said a little. Designers start with solid design that produce great sound with in high level requirements (watts per channel, gain… etc.). Then they will swap sub components like capacitors, resisters, special placement… etc to make it sound great… often the end product will sound much better… but not test as well. It doesn’t take anywhere the engineering time to create a component that just tests well as one that sounds great. Hence higher cost. Also why choosing equipment by specs will seldom sound good. So, the “secret sauce” is upgrading sub components and listening over and over and over during the design process and using much higher quality components.

@ghdprentice

Sounds great according to them. You would wonder how they assess what sounds great. If it’s done by swapping components and then blind testing that would be most interesting. Then of course I’d re-test to see exactly what changed because it may be possible to achieve the same result in a more cost effective fashion. This would also add to a body of knowledge about which deviations from linearity sound great and which don’t. If the change passes a blind test but nothing measurably different can be found then that is also an extremely interesting finding that would expand science and engineering in ways that would extend past the field of hifi. I see little of that kind of contribution from the world of audio reproduction happening, so I’m convinced that the "secret sauce" has to be some audible deviation from linearity that offers nothing new to the general fields of science and engineering, and it seems unlikely that expensive sub components would be required to create the most pleasing effect unless one grooms one’s tastes in that direction. This gets me thinking of moissanite vs diamond. Moissanite actually exceeds diamond for fire. It diffracts light more strongly. This would seem desirable but since it is known that moissanite is cheaper than diamond the extra fire is seen by some as a tale tell of it’s cheapness, thus it is not as beautiful as the more restrained fire of diamond.

Each major high end audio company has a house sound.. B&W, ARC, Sonus Faber, Conrad Johnson, Wilson, etc. They know what they are trying to achieve.

I read an interview with the head designer at MBL (?), Burmeister (?). Anyway, one of the most highly respected high end audio company. He talked about how he approached design and that he could achieve what ever sound he wanted. He knows that brand x capacitors sound like this… and brand y sounds like that… so he can make the equipment sound like anyway he likes. Their high end (very high end) was designed to be an assault on what is possible… but that there was a limited market for that sound. So he just completed a design for folks with less refined tastes, for a lower level markets (not remotely cheap).

Additionally these are trade secrets. A company / design engineer that understands the characteristics of different components within different design has proprietary knowledge. This is the stuff of competive advantage. Over time it becomes widely known in the community, the company moves on, to say, using cryogenic treated wire… or machined solid blocks of unobtainium for the case.

Design engineers capable of that level of sound quality engineering are exceedingly rare. I have had the pleasure of managing and working with truly incredible minds… literally geniuses. Those that make smart people look stupid. These are the kind of people capable of creating leading edge designs. Companies that produce really high end equipment are not unaware or stumbling around. They don’t play with blind tests any more than the top birders in the world need to refer to google to make sure of the correct identification of a sparrow.

good discussion and good points made @ghdprentice

great companies in this field know exactly what they are doing, just as great car companies, great winemakers, great chefs are expertly competent and in control of their processes and end goals... over time these may change to meet their view of market and business requirements but their new products and how they perform don’t come about by their shooting in the dark

i repeat this every and now and then on this discussion board, great durable companies that have sustained success in this field - like conrad johnson, audio research, pass labs, magnepan, vandersteen, sonus faber, audio note, msb, sme and so on... they have not been stealing money from the deaf all these years...