Is Rap a valid musical form?

Sure it’s a valid musical form. Not a very good one, for me, but still valid.

It’s just one I happen to dislike immensely. While I can appreciate the political messages, especially in the earlier days of rap, the simplistic musical delivery system for those messages, is boring, cliché, repetitive, poorly played, IMO. In other words, it has a very limited musical language.

My criteria for what I consider good musical forms are: very high level of musicianship, musical complexity, deep and broad emotional and intellectual content, avoidance of verse>chorus>bridge song structure, no need for simple hooks.

In other words, almost the complete opposite of rap.

And yes, I have listened to rap many times, in all eras. Every time I mention on music forums why I don’t like it, someone will invariably mention rap that they believe fits some of my criteria. Having an open mind, I will listen to it, and always come away disappointed. It is always simple, repetitive, lacks any real musicianship, etc.

Just to sum up, my dislike for rap is purely based on musical content and merit. No other criteria at all enters my judgement. I also put pop, mainstream rock, punk, disco, country at just a slightly higher level than rap, again due to those criteria I mentioned above.

Fun topic

If music is defined by melody, harmony and rhythm, then somebody needs to go tell Bartok, Schoenberg, Coltrane and Thelonious Monk. Because they didn’t care about any of it ( @stuartk )

(I love the dead, but Jerry Garcia is just a folksinger who got lucky)

Here are five songs to try if you haven’t listened to rap or think you don’t like it. Personally, I think a lot of people forget that a lot of rap is funny, and much of it tongue-in-cheek parody. And many don’t really listen to lyrics - structure, rhyme scheme, meter. They just hear the words. And like any art form, understanding context can assist appreciation

This isn’t a “greatest of all time” list.  It’s just a list of good songs that maybe are accessible to a new-comer, and demonstrate some facet of hip-hop/rap worth that is worth understanding 

1) All Fall Down, Kanye West. May expand your mind on the themes of hip-hop. Btw, Kanye literally changed popular music with this album (College Dropout), reintroducing melody and introspection after some years defined by sampling, and then beats.  Bonus track: Breathe In, Breathe Out. So funny, amazing parody

2) Jay-Z, The Story of OJ. Speaks for itself. A song by a 50 year old man, who has seen every side of America (look up who’s providing the backing vocal sample and what they are singing). Sean Carter understands American history with unflinching clarity

3) Ludacris, Southern Hospitality. First, it’s really funny. Second, grab a pencil and parse the rhyme scheme, scansion, form, alliteration, assonance, etc. Chris Bridges is a very shrewd lyricist

4) Missy Elliot, The Rain. Probably the most influential song ever written by a female hip-hop artist. If someone on the thread understands music theory, please explain to us that rhythm. It might as well have come from Mars, because there wasn’t much like it before. Written by Missy and her childhood friend Tim Mosely (“Timbalad”), now considered one of hip-hop’s greatest producers

The Rain also contains the best use of onomatopoeia in all music, at the beginning of the third verse

5) Warning, Biggie. A fantastic example of storytelling in hip-hop.  The song is a journey. And Biggie’s delivery is a good introduction to the concept of “flow”.  The producer, Osten Harvey, is good enough that Miles Davis asked him to produce for him

@mrskeptic + 1 @atlvalet ​​+1 ​@larsman + 1

@jonwatches1 - 'Jerry Garcia is just a folksinger who got lucky'? That's the funniest thing I've read this year so far! 🤣🤣🤣

And yes, I love the Dead too, but I sure ain't buyin' THAT!

@atlvalet - I'm 70 and totally enjoy hip-hop, rap, punk, post-punk, etc etc. so maybe all 'boomers' ain't the same, yeah? 

@larsman , ok, maybe I said that for a little effect 😂.  But let me remain sacrilegious and point out that John Mayer is a better singer, musician and songwriter than Jerry Garcia, by, like, 1000%. He’s still not Jerry, nor should he want to be

I’m a musical omnivore and really do think there is great art in hip-hop as well.  And, like all music forms, 98% of it will be forgotten in a hundred years. I mean, who remembers what was #2 on the charts in 1723, or whenever Bach finished his cello suites?

@simonmoon , appreciate the thoughtful addition to the conversation

@jonwatches1 - Hah! Nothing wrong with a little old time sacreligion! Dunno what the criteria for 'better' would be, but not for me he ain't - never mind ballpark; not even the same planet! Gimme Jerry 👍, not John Mayer 👎! 😃

Interesting that Bach was 'lost' for about 150 years, including just about all of the 19th century, I believe, before he went on his 'Last Tour'!