effect of tubes in cd players

Generalizations cannot be made on this topic IMO, any more than generalizations about SS outputs. It is very dependent on the design. Most tube designs have poorly designed power supplies and distribution, not to mention poor parts selection, so they appear to have "bloom" or HF roll-off or flabby bass. There is no reason why a tube design cannot sound a LOT like a decent SS design, and can be even better due to better dynamic linearity. It is also very dependent on the AC-coupling capacitors. Many times, it is the capacitors that you hear, not the tubes.

There are a few tubes that just dont perform well in ANY design, but there are the same analogies with op-amps and even transistors....these are the exception, not the rule.

>There is no reason why a tube design cannot sound a LOT like a decent SS design,<

That is if you want your system to sound as though it has a "decent" amplifier. No thanks, not for me. I want my system to sound like it has a "good" tube amplifier doing the duty. And that doesn't mean >HF roll-off or flabby bass<. Because that's NOT what a good tube amp sounds like. Nor does it sound like a SS device, which in most cases is definitely mediocre.

Oz

I agree with OZ, there's A-Z qulaity tube amps. A well designed/high quality parts tube amp will exceeed most every ss amp. We are talking musicality and also fatigue factor. I could never go back to ss amps.
back to "small differences in tube rolling". There is a point to be made that in some tube amps, the design (or is it also parts quality) is poor, and so has this 'signature sound". So no matter what pre tubes you use tthe difference will be over rided by the 'sig sound' of the amp. Now driver tube replacement will obviously be a greater cahnge, but the cost factor is high.
I wouldn't roll expensive tubes in a poor design tube amp.

back to the original question. "Does tubes inside a cdp make a differencea as say in a tube preamp?"

Yes the tube out on my Cayin 15 sounds to my ears more airy/musical vs the ss outs.
"small" but still noticable.

Ozzy62 - you have obviously never heard what good transistor design can do. Definitely not mediocre, also not stock. I takes a lot of mods to get transistors to sing IMO. The only tube amp that I have heard that delivers the bass tightness is the Wavac, and you know what that costs...I've heard them all.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
Manufacturer

Bartokfan - I believe you and I would probably come to the same conclusion, but this is only one data point. The tube outputs on the Shanling sound better than the SS outputs as well, that is until I mod it. Then the SS outputs leave the tubes in the dust...very dependent on the design. Again, I feel that generalizations cannot be made.

I have heard good SS and good tube designs. Many more SS designs though. If you are looking for rolled-off and undynamic, then even poor tube designs can deliver this. This is why there are so many tube designers out there. It is easier to come-up with a tube design that sounds decent. It is just simpler design. It is also very difficult to design one that outperforms the best SS, particularly when it comes to HF extension, dynamics and bass tightness. The technical reason why this is the case is as follows:

Tubes require high-voltage, therefore the currents are quite small to the plate. Delivering these currents is therefore easier than the equivalent power delivery to bipolar transistors or mosfets. As a result, even "broken" power supply and power delivery designs for tubes can sound decent. I know because I have fixed a number of them. But, making them world-class requires the same care as design for SS. I have found that most tube designers do not have the experience required to achieve this. The Wavac is an exception, but I suspect that even the Wavac could be improved a bit. The other issue with high-voltage is coupling. There must be isolation, either by transformer or by capacitors. These ultimately add coloration. I have tried and measured all types of coupling caps and only within the last year or so have I found capacitors so transparent that they sound close to DC-coupled. Most designers select capacitors that I reject as too colored due to high dielectric absorption, losses or other factors. I have a DAC product myself that has tubed output, so I'm not against tubes. It is my best DAC.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
Manufacturer