What CD player will warm my Thiel/Classe systm?

Try an Opera Consonance Linear or Reference CD 2. I've got the Reference Mk 2.2 and I found it outplayed the Unico which is tubed as well.

See http://www.opera-consonance.com/products/refcd22.htm

Audio Salon in Glasgow, UK rave about the 'linear' version - a non-upsampling DAC. Mine is the 2.2 Reference which upsamples. With balanced outputs and a good cable it sounds fantastic - great soundstage & lovely vinyl like sound.

Two dealers I've spoken to (and bought from) rate the Opera Consonance gear very highly.

I'd avoid Naim kit if you like a warm sound. Having a tubed output stage helps soften edges and works superbly for classical music in particular.

Also I'd be careful with cables - as ever they seem to make a huge difference. Certainly upgrading to JPS labs XLR cable makes a huge difference in my system - 'night and day'.

From what you just described, my recommendation to you as a "novice audiophile" is NOT to run out and buy a different CD player. Of course you may want to get a better CDP at some point, but this will have almost no bearing on your system's low frequency situation.

Listening to a portable through headphones with the bass boost engaged is not the way to judge accurate response, so if that is your subjective preference benchmark, you might be disappointed in this hobby. For better or worse, a speaker like a Thiel is designed to give flat response within its frequency range, so if a recording is bass-shy or if the treble is rolled off, that's the way it's going to sound, and audiophile preamps generally don't have tone controls to compensate. But even if you were to add an equalizer to the system, it could never duplicate the effect of your headphone rig.

As you surmise, the particular Thiel model you own is not designed to go all the way down in the bass (no small speaker does), and also won't exagerate the mid and upper bass instead for added "warmth". It's appropriate for smaller rooms, and listeners willing to live without the bottom 2.5 octaves being reproduced in full, who value its strengths elsewhere. This particular listening style and set of priorities is somewhat peculiar to one branch of the audiophile tree, and also dependent on the music being played. As you probably know, it wouldn't impress most kids who enjoy blasting hip-hop in their cars.

Whether it can give you Ron Carter is the question however. Integrating a sub for satisfactory results can be tricky. The Thiel subs probably would work fantastically with the 1.6, but as you note this seems a ridiculous proposition price-wise. Also, the Thiel subs are designed expressly to extend missing bass frequencies accurately -- not to 'goose' the whole lower end of the spectrum like a bass boost button, or to provide overt "warmth".

[Also, be aware that the word warmth has multiple meanings in audiophilia, not all of them having to do with frequency response per se. Prominent treble is considered to detract from warmth, as is a depressed lower midrange. Deep bass extension, but paradoxically also higher bass harmonic distortion and looser bass driver control, are typically thought of as adding warmth. Another meaning has to do with the harmonic signature imparted by gear in its reproduction of overtones. Anyway, this is why, when you ask about a warmer CDP, you won't necessarily get a solution to bass-shyness.]

What I'm wondering quite honestly is if you bought the wrong speakers. I'd appreciate you describing your room dimensions and listening tastes. Without this info, all you will get is all that you knew to ask for: pet recommendations for CD player shopping, rather than help with your problem.

Used tube player is your best bet. Cayin, Jolida, Consonance.

Thankyou, Zaikesman, for such a thoughtful response. With 20/20 hindsight I might have chosen different speakers (an audio retail shop led me down this particular path, but that's a different story). My challenge now is upgrading around what I have, on a limited budget, but in such a way that the end result produces synergy.

My problem is probably best addressed by others who have the Thiel 1.6s and have a sense for balancing their strengths and limitations. (By the way, the Sony discman is not my reference for sound quality, just an analogy to commuinicate what I was trying to accomplish -- more bottom end on about half of my 500 or so CD recordings of jazz, many on small labels with less than pristine recording quality.)

After weighing all the earlier comments, I drove for an hour today to the nearest audio showroom. Unfortuantely, they did not have a Jolida CDP or other tube players to audition, but they did let me listen to a Velodyne subwoofer with some B&W 704s. I think the sub is what I really want next, as I can turn it on or up depending upon the nature of the recordings to add more low frequency response. Now my question is: which sub would be best with my system? The Classe that drives it is rated 150 watts/channel. My room is about 20 x 30 with a high ceiling. I have the Thiels about 12 feet apart and sit in an equilateral triangle to them. Even the salesman today agreed that my budget and needs probably don't justify $3000 for the Thiel SS1.

I'm thinking I will upgrade the CDP down the line (when the tooth fairy brings me more funds), but finding a sub that will work well with my existing system may get me back to the immediate goal of enjoying music instead of worrying about equipment. Any experience of adding a sub with these speakers? Need I be wary of crossover problems or boominess with less expensive subs?

So, thanks again. I'm learning.

This Onkyo CDP--it's a garden variety mass-market CDP like you'd get at Circuit City? If so, it may not be that your system needs more "warmth" as much as it needs to get rid of harsh or brittle "bad" digital sound. A used Cary 303-200 would do that for maybe $1200. Or a used Meridian 506 for maybe half that.

The bass is probably a separate issue. But if you listen mainly to CD's, & you have a mediocre CDP, "more bass" may not increase your satisfaction that much.

I'd say focus on a good CDP first, then maybe a good equipment rack. A used REL Strata III sub for maybe $900 might be a good idea later.