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Subs/Monitors vs Full-Range Speakers - Pros/Cons

I've enjoyed a variety of full-range (near full-range) speakers over the years, but I recently decided to give some monitors a try. Inevitably - as would be expected - I like the strengths of the monitors (imaging, sound-staging, ability to disappear...), but I do miss the extended bass response.

I am currently running the Pioneer S-2EX (truly exceptional monitors ' "junior TADs"). I like them well enough to either keep them and incorporate a sub(s) or trade up to the S-1EX floor-standers - they sound great too (with the extended bass I want), but they just don't image quite as well in my room) - I could live with them though, if a sub setup with the S-2EXs doesn't pan out...

I'm looking at JL audio subs. I would rather utilize one sub ("cost" factor) than two... My concern is whether or not a good sub can truly ever be effectively integrated with monitors. I’m hoping so…

Can those of you having had successful integration with subs provide me with some guidance…Can I get by with one sub or is a stereo pair truly necessary. My monitors go down to 38Hz – is that “40Hz range” crossover point low enough provide a seamless integration (i.e.: will I be able to tell where the sub is when it “kicks in”)? How difficult is placement? General pros/cons…etc…?

Thanks.

_Ben
2chnlben
2chnlben OP
595 posts
 
I tried feverishly to incorporate a JL Audio sub with my system. John, from Audio Video logic, was kind and generous enough to come over and spend a couple of hours. John brought with him his "tools" and measured pink noise from various positions. We moved the main speakers around, we moved the sub around. Even John agreed that the integration wasn't seamless.

My room produces quite a dip (a "suck out" really) between 80 - 100 cycles. No matter what we tried, the sub couldn't correct this issue (without crossing over at too high a frequency - where we could really hear the sub). I believe that the "monitors" simply do not produce enough energy for my room and I am therefore going to move up to the floor-standers (the S-1EXs).

The S-2EX are astonishingly good. By far the best small speakers I have ever heard at anywhere near their price-range. I can only hope that the much larger S-1EXs provide the same qualities with the needed extra energy and frequency response.

Thank you all for your valuable input. It was fun experimenting with the sub and the monitors.

_Ben
richards
145 posts
 
Sorry to hear the subs didn't work out for you, and good luck with the full range speakers. One advantage of subs though is that those last 10Hz at the bottom can add a lot to the soundstage and ambiance. I've always preferred using subs, even on pretty full range speakers. Two subs are usually better at smoothing out the in-room bass response. A low x-over helps, but one main problem with subs is in the time domain: unless you have them next to your speakers, the low bass will arrive at the listening seat at a different time and confuse the sound. One option I've tried and enjoyed is the TBI (VBT) subs which are small and quick and can be placed beside the mains without dominating a room (see 6moons review).

AS you've experienced, the listening room is often a great obstacle to great bass. After experimenting with dozens of sub setups since my first M & K sat/sub system 25+ years ago, I've finally found bass satisfaction using a Tact system and Lyngdorf corner subs. It allows the monitors to be way out into the room (where they sound and image best) while the subs benefit from the gain of corner placement, all time aligned and with the bass humps and dips evened out. With the bass reasonably flat, the monitors (mids) can shine....
2chnlben OP
595 posts
 
Thanks Richards.

I've heard some great set ups that effectively integrated subs. I my case, the monitors - as good as they are - were just too small for my room.

I now have the S-1EX's set up and I am very happy with the way they "resolved" the issues that most concerned me about the monitors. It was a case of having insufficient energy. The bigger speakers are voiced similarly, but they move more air and provide more bass in a way that suites the room about as well as can be expected (always room for some tweaking though!).

I appreciate all the great input.

Cheers!

_Ben
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