B&W Matrix 801 Series II

When you say that the Mac "simply doesn't have enough horsepower" is it a borderline case or not even in the ballpark?

Frogman
this reminded me of something that I feel is really important regarding the 801 but also the other matrix line as well.
We have already discussed how the speakers were designed to work with the bass alignment filter - aka an equalizer.
The BAF has two benefits and if your amp is borderline SS or Tube - the BAF can only help and this is why.

First - it makes the speaker more efficient. I have had discussions with B&W on this to confirm it. But they don't have the measurements.

Secondly and one of the reasons they become more efficient.
If you play vinyl, much of it has subsonic frequencies recorded in the grooves. The BAF has a 19 hz cutoff.
This means the amp's energy reserve is not wasted playing those sub 19 hz frequencies, making the woofers pump. leaving its power reserve for what you can hear feel above 20hz. In effect giving it more headroom. All speakers benefit from amps which have lots of headroom.

This is why its important for Wemfan or any one else to try to get the most powerful amps they can SS or Tube and not just amp/s that will work for the situation. Too many 801s are just hooked up to HT receivers because it works.

There is a rumble filter on my preamps but I choose not to use them as they are too close to the vinyl source for me. Since the speakers are designed to be used with their own spec'ed out factory filter - this is much different.
When you set up the BAF there are two rows of pins on the circuit board, one for each speaker with 10 pins locations that you set either (on or off) for each matrix speaker 800 - 805.
All 800 series matrix line utilize different pin arrangements per B&W testing.

An observation
When I got the 800's I pulled the woofers and brought them in to get checked out. One of the tests they do is placing the woofers magnet end on the table and hooking it up to a cd that plays a test signal at 20, 25, 30 hz.
This signal is stronger than anything we will ever (or should ever send the woofer) through normal use.
With the test the woofer starts oscillating up and down the cone. This shows if all parts are working properly.

So if your amp is borderline - the BAF will only help you. At first when you hook it up it will seem as though you have made the sound more lean as the 100 hz plateau is removed. This also allows for better positioning in smaller rooms.

Wemfan - are you able to identify music you have with 20-30 hz material in it. if so in your large room there may be enough space,
as ZB said to allow them to bloom without the filter.....

I can recommend a few from last night.

Count Basie - Party
Patricia Barber - Companion
Beatles - Abbey Road - side two
Dead Can Dance - Anastassis
Lorde
Sarah McLachlan - Solace, Fumblin for Ecstasy

Frogman you mentioned VTL - Poster Vegasears uses VTL's.
I know people who use various SS, and Tube. Tube including Push Pull (most common), OTL's and even one that uses a SET with his 801 in a small room. he doesn't listen to music with a lot of bass however.

So the type of music you like to listen to plays a big factor here.

TLS49 - do you recall the type of music you demoed the 801's with when people auditioned them ?

Cheers

When you set up the BAF there are two rows of pins on the circuit board, one for each speaker with 10 pins locations that you set either (on or off) for each matrix speaker 800 - 805.
All 800 series matrix line utilize different pin arrangements per B&W testing.

Switch Pin Settings

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I just came in from the studio listening to the speakers and I really like them. They are very different from the Klipschorns which is what I want. Smooth with a strong low end and good clear mids. After trying both the Parasound and the MAC I can hear that I need a really good SS amp with an appropriate amount of power.

I will hold off on the crossovers as you guys suggest. I am used to guitar amps and they need frequent cap changes if they are to sound right so it made sense to me that a speaker this old would probably need some new caps. I will order some stands soon. How tall would you go? I have been on Ebay checking out the BAF but there were none for sale last I checked. They seem to go from $250-$350. I will get one when I have the opportunity.

Ct0157, The Krells have not been serviced. I just mentioned them because they are here locally and I know nothing about them. I don't plan on using the MC275 or the C2300 with the 801s. I want to go with something different. I listen to vinyl and cds and I very much doubt that I will ever progress beyond that. The cabinets are in good shape...an imperfection here or there but really in clean original condition. Don't apologize for the long post. Your posts are always full of good information and very much appreciated. I read and read them as I do the whole thread.

ELEE, thanks clarifying your advice on the crossovers. I was about to pull the trigger.... now I will wait.

Frogman, I really like things that sound good. I doubt I listen to music the exact same way you guys do since I am a musician and not an audiophile but how music sounds is extremely important to me. I have chased the perfect guitar/amp for my whole career. I routinely tweak on my gear and acquire more (sound familiar?) I have a pretty good vintage guitar/amp collection all acquired in the pursuit of trying to get the best tone. I really like things that sound good. As a musician I am an analog guy. I am a tube amp guy. My newest guitar is a 1966. I have always worked on my music gear and was never knowledgable enough about audio gear to have as good of a system as I always wanted. In the last year or so I have been trying to correct that. I am currently trying to learn and acquire. I want my studio to roll my socks up and down every time I turn something on in there.

Oh, and the MC 275 is not even in the ballpark.

So far, the Forte and the VTL 300 have been suggested. Now that you guys know a little bit more about me and what I am looking for I really need some more suggestions about which amp I need. Remember, I have no idea how to pick one so don't assume I know anything because I really don't. You guys would be surprised how much I learn from your posts.

Keep the advise coming. I really need and appreciate it.

As for amps, I would go for the bigger Pass Labs .8 A/B amps. At least the X350.8. Bryston 28BSST2 might be another consideration, as is the Accuphase P-6100. These are my favorite amps at the moment, and should drive your 801s to the fullest.

****After trying both the Parasound and the MAC I can hear that I need a really good SS amp with an appropriate amount of power. ****

Wemfan, could you elaborate on that comment? Earlier, from your description of the differences between the sound of the Mac and the Parasound, one would get the impression that the Mac sounded much better to you:

**** ..... how much more definition and clarity the MAC had over
the Parasound through the B&Ws. The Parasound was also a little muddy. ****

Do you feel that you need a good ss amp because you think that only ss will give you enough power, or because you have changed your mind about preferring ss attributes vs those of tubes?

My recommendation of the VTL was precisely because that is an affordable used alternative that will give you lots of power with good bass control (a typical ss attribute) and, being a tube amp, classic tube attributes like dimensionality and fullness of tone through the midrange. You describe yourself as a "tube guy"; then why ss?

Now, for a bit of unsolicited advise of the kind that is difficult to express and can be misinterpreted; so, I apologize ahead of time:

Remember that you are on an audiophile forum. Audiophiles most certainly also "like things that sound good" and "how music sounds is important" to audiophiles also; that is the nature of the beast. Having said that, it is also true that, generally speaking, musicians tend to give priority to certain sonic attributes. In my experience, and as a musician myself, those tend to be in the areas of midrange (especially lower midrange) fullness and micro dynamics; hence my recommendation of something like the VTL's. As a musician who has been poking around this forum for some time I would encourage you to not dwell too much on the presumed differences between how musicians and audiophiles listen to music; it will ensure the best dialogue and best advise.