I am one of those that believe a room, that is a particular space, regardless of set-up and components can contribute in no small way to poor sound or conversely, great sound. I have personally experienced it and in my particular case tried every possible set-up making wholesale changes to the system including 3 speakers. The final solution? I ended up abandoning the room after my wife and I had a serious talk about rearranging our living space. I do agree about treatments though, they can be taken too far and there are other means to achieve good results including plants, window treatment and furniture placement. First and foremost as Newbee notes is speaker placement relative to listening position and wall boundaries and go from there. Last thing is recommending component changes until it is determined if there is a fundamental problem with the room regardless of set-up. Some rooms just don't work.
Frustrated with the sound of my system
Here is my system:
Rotel RCD-965BX CD Player as transport
MSB Link 2 DAC
Sonic Frontiers SFL-1 Signature preamp
Classe 10 amplifier
North Creek Audio Borealis speakers (Custom built kit speaker...something close to a Proac Response 2.5 design)
M&K V-75 sub
Kimber and Cardas interconnects
Kimber 4TC/8TC bi-wire speaker cables.
Here is my frustration:
The sound, regardless of music, sounds stringent, hard, really lacks air, and is anything but relaxed. It is fatigueing. I can listen to my Grado 60 headphones on an iPod and the sound is frustratingly more relaxed and has what I would call air.
I don't think that my system is that outstanding, but it really seems like I should be more pleased with what I am hearing.
I would be interested in your thoughts on where the most likely opportunity is. I really like the individual components of the system (OK the Rotel/MSB set up is old and just OK), but all together they seem to be underwhelming. I am thinking it is either in improving the digital front end (new player or DAC) or moving to a planar speaker to get the sound I desire. I have thought about new player like an OPPO 93 or 95, perhaps a tube based player or DAC, or else looking at something like a used pair of Maggie 12's or 1.6's. I have always enjoyed the Maggie sound.
In either case I am thinking that $2k is the absolute max I would want to spend on any solution. Thanks in advance. If there are other questions I would be glad to supply details.
Rotel RCD-965BX CD Player as transport
MSB Link 2 DAC
Sonic Frontiers SFL-1 Signature preamp
Classe 10 amplifier
North Creek Audio Borealis speakers (Custom built kit speaker...something close to a Proac Response 2.5 design)
M&K V-75 sub
Kimber and Cardas interconnects
Kimber 4TC/8TC bi-wire speaker cables.
Here is my frustration:
The sound, regardless of music, sounds stringent, hard, really lacks air, and is anything but relaxed. It is fatigueing. I can listen to my Grado 60 headphones on an iPod and the sound is frustratingly more relaxed and has what I would call air.
I don't think that my system is that outstanding, but it really seems like I should be more pleased with what I am hearing.
I would be interested in your thoughts on where the most likely opportunity is. I really like the individual components of the system (OK the Rotel/MSB set up is old and just OK), but all together they seem to be underwhelming. I am thinking it is either in improving the digital front end (new player or DAC) or moving to a planar speaker to get the sound I desire. I have thought about new player like an OPPO 93 or 95, perhaps a tube based player or DAC, or else looking at something like a used pair of Maggie 12's or 1.6's. I have always enjoyed the Maggie sound.
In either case I am thinking that $2k is the absolute max I would want to spend on any solution. Thanks in advance. If there are other questions I would be glad to supply details.
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- 85 posts total
Guys(figuratively), I really appreciate all the lively discussion. I will have the house to myself for the majority of the week, so I will experiment with speaker placement and listening position. There is a wealth of information from you and you are really making me think hard on solving this. I will keep you posted. Any one care to give me a little info on the "Cardas method". |
01-23-12: NewbeeIMO Newbee's suggestion is excellent and is definitely the place to start. You need to get a handle on what your system really sounds like, while minimizing the presence of reverberant energy that undoubtedly comprises a great deal of what you are hearing, particularly given the listening distance and room dimensions you have described. I would suggest that when you do this you try a variety of toe-in angles, including no toe-in. I see that your speakers have been designed to provide essentially ruler-flat frequency response from 45 Hz to 22 kHz, as shown in the graph about 1/3 of the way from the top of this page. That kind of response can be very unforgiving of non-optimal placement, listening position, and room acoustics, and IME can sound hard and excessively bright if not set up optimally. Regards, -- Al |
Stuartbmw3, I won't cheat you out of the pleasure of finding the Cardas methodology on line, but I would like to say that it is more applicable in concept than any particular specificity. I haven't read it in years but as I recall for box speakers in rectangular rooms it places the speakers about 1/3d of the length of the room away from the wall behind them, 1/3d of the width of the sidewalls away from the side walls. It places the listening chair at the apex of an equilateral triangle. When I first used it I ended up using 1/5th in place of 1/3d and it worked well. Then I spent a few years fine tuning it! :-) Another tip. Try toeing in your speakers once you have reset them until the axis of the speakers crosses well in front of your listening chair. Assuming your speakers are hot on axis this not only reduces high end energy, it minimizes 1st reflections off the closest wall and directs them off the opposite wall thus creating a long delay before they finally reach your ears. It has a similar effect with the signal bouncing off the ceiling. You can much more longer delayed signal related to the shorter delayed signal. For different reasons this can also increase the width of the sweet spot for listening. Just something to play with. Have fun. |
I am a novice audiophile, but I would try one thing, it is simple and easy. If you are running all this on standard outlets as is normally wired into a house when built, most electricians will run 8 to 12 outlets on one 15amp breaker and if you are plugging all this into a few of these outlets but also have lamps and other "items" in the house plugged into this circuit also, you could be on the edge of your amp load and so I would run a dedicated 15 or 20 amp service line on a new breaker so that you are running all your equipment on its own circuit so all the juice is dedicated to just your system. Use hospital grade receptacles and you can try isolated ground receptacles as well. Seems to me you have nice enough equipment, could be a simple matter of current starvation? Easy enough to test. carry on. |
- 85 posts total