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What do we hear when we change the direction of a wire?

Douglas Self wrote a devastating article about audio anomalies back in 1988. With all the necessary knowledge and measuring tools, he did not detect any supposedly audible changes in the electrical signal. Self and his colleagues were sure that they had proved the absence of anomalies in audio, but over the past 30 years, audio anomalies have not disappeared anywhere, at the same time the authority of science in the field of audio has increasingly become questioned. It's hard to believe, but science still cannot clearly answer the question of what electricity is and what sound is! (see article by A.J.Essien).

For your information: to make sure that no potentially audible changes in the electrical signal occur when we apply any "audio magic" to our gear, no super equipment is needed. The smallest step-change in amplitude that can be detected by ear is about 0.3dB for a pure tone. In more realistic situations it is 0.5 to 1.0dB'". This is about a 10% change. (Harris J.D.). At medium volume, the voltage amplitude at the output of the amplifier is approximately 10 volts, which means that the smallest audible difference in sound will be noticeable when the output voltage changes to 1 volt. Such an error is impossible not to notice even using a conventional voltmeter, but Self and his colleagues performed much more accurate measurements, including ones made directly on the music signal using Baxandall subtraction technique - they found no error even at this highest level.

As a result, we are faced with an apparently unsolvable problem: those of us who do not hear the sound of wires, relying on the authority of scientists, claim that audio anomalies are BS. However, people who confidently perceive this component of sound are forced to make another, the only possible conclusion in this situation: the electrical and acoustic signals contain some additional signal(s) that are still unknown to science, and which we perceive with a certain sixth sense.

If there are no electrical changes in the signal, then there are no acoustic changes, respectively, hearing does not participate in the perception of anomalies. What other options can there be?

Regards.
anton_stepichev
mahgister's avatar
mahgister
15,055 posts
 
I will stick with my initial analysis. Poorly supported conclusion based on false summaries of other works, that I suspect he does not even have the academic background in many cases to understand let alone comment on.
You dont even know his basic affirmation...

You have not read it...

And you insult his intelligence without even knowing him...

I am flabbergasted by your prejudices....

But i will mute myself for now...

I have not study it enough either and i am not an audio specialist...

but you dont seems to have a clue about what this writer want to adress in psychoacoustic....

Why pitch perception, an objective phenomenon with human endowed with perfect pitch perception, cannot be completely reduced to physics concept of frequency or explained by it...The writer use mechanical experiments to point what is lacking to the frequencies approach of Helmholtz to explain pitch perception...He also touch phonology/phonetic deep problems in language and this part interest me very much also....

I am not competent to gives an authorized opinion for sure.... I am not sure you are either, his affirmation and experiments goes on a complete other direction than orthodox research in psychoacoustic...And even Lord Kelvin explained to all that physics in 1900 was touching the end...He cannot fathom the Planck revolution to come... Then i dont doubt the competence in physics of Kelvin no more than  your own competence in audio.... 

Anyway i will stay silent for the moment....And this thread is not about Sound but about direction in wires.... then...





dletch2
455 posts
 
@glennewdick

Never figured out how you all can hear directionality in a wire for an AC signal.


A wire can only be directional for AC signals. It cannot be directional for DC. You have it backwards. I am not saying there will be anything audible, only that you must have AC for it to be directional.

anton_stepichev OP
150 posts
 
@dletch2
If you can't prove it with a blind listening test, then it is not there.

All right, whatever you say, let's move on.

What's an acoustic cable? Do you mean speaker cable? I don't think you understand fields. Applied voltage generates a field independent of current. That will be an electrostatic field.

I apologize for the translation difficulties, of course this is a speaker cable, and the field is electromagnetic. but that doesn't change the point, if the grid emits audible radiation in some way, then the anode will emit tens of times stronger one. However, the wires on the grid  (IC) and the anode (SC) make a proportionate contribution to the sound of the amplifier.

Now let's try to figure out whether the fields can determine the audibility of power cables. Last time you replied something?  strange about it:
The level of the voltage changes at 60Hz. The frequency of the current may have a fundamental at 60Hz, but there will be harmonics up to many KHz and above.

It is completely unclear how HF harmonics from a power cable get into the signal circuit and how 60 Hz buzzing can affect the music signal except to cause something like the same buzzing?

glupson
7,842 posts
 
nationalbar,

You really raised the bar with this one above.

Or lowered it.

It depends who is reading it.
dletch2
455 posts
 
It is completely unclear how HF harmonics from a power cable get into the signal circuit and how 60 Hz buzzing can affect the music signal except to cause something like the same buzzing?


This is not an advocacy for expensive power cables, but there are many ways the harmonics in the AC to get into the signal. Whether they do or not is a different question.  The most obvious one is via the power supply, especially in a low feedback amplifier. Primary power supply harmonic is 120Hz, but with all the linear supplies, there are harmonics at many multiples of that frequency, certainly up to several KHz. Those big transformers audiophiles love get rid much of the really high frequencies.


Those high current peaks from the power amplifiers generate harmonic noise on the AC line that can get into other power supplies.

Those high current peaks can generate higher frequency EMI that can get into signal lines (at least a justification for shielding). 

I don't see a lot of justification for the cost or claims about most high end power cords. Most of these power cord / cable designers have little knowledge of electronics which is evident in their claims. It works because their customers do not either. Vicious circle.

That 60Hz buzzing is not always just 60Hz. It is only something that happens 60 times a second. There can be rich harmonic content in that 60Hz buzz.   Now that take 60Hz and harmonics and modulate a music signal with it. Now you have stuff all over the place.
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