Does the first reflection point actually matter??


Hello my friends,

So please read the whole post before commenting. The question is nuanced.

First, as you probably know I’m a huge fan of the well treated room, and a fan boy of GIK acoustics as a result, so what I am _not_ arguing is against proper room treatment. I remember many years ago, perhaps in Audio magazine (dating myself?) the concept of treating the first reflection points came up, and it seems really logical, and quickly adopted. Mirrors, flashlights and lasers and paying the neighbor’s kid (because we don’t have real friends) to come and hold them while marking the wall became common.

However!! In my experience, I have not actually been able to tell the difference between panels on and off that first reflection point. Of course, I can hear the difference between panels and not, but after all these years, I want to ask if any of you personally know that the first reflection point really matters more than other similar locations. Were we scammed? By knowing I mean, did you experiment? Did you find it the night and day difference that was uttered, or was it a subtle thing, and if those panels were moved 6" off, would you hear it?


Best,


Erik
erik_squires
Mahgister wrote: " We must NEVER forget that acoustic preparation of a studio recording room has no relation at all with what must be used in a play back audiophile room.... "

Please note that I said "control room", not "live room", the latter being the room where the musicians perform and the actual recording is made.

The goal in the control room are not dissimilar to home audio: To clearly hear what’s on the recording, without any masking or other undesirable signature from the playback room.

Duke
The goal in the control room are not dissimilar to home audio: To clearly hear what’s on the recording, without any masking or other undesirable signature from the playback room.
The room where the recording is made is one room...

The control and mixing room is where the electronic controls of quality are...

But the sound you will listen to is YOUR room, and what you will listen to will never be the ideal standardized generic preparation by mixing and equalization etc of the sound engineer...It will be your specific room...

In a word your brain must learn how to retrieve the cues coming from the recording from the cues coming from your listening room...Your brain dont work like a sound engineer in the mixing room trying to be faithful to the recording only....Your brain need a room....And it will not be the recording room....It will be the room where you live....Your brain will be faithfull to the recording event to the limit of his own actual location: his room experience...

And nobody only listen to what is on the recording hall, or lived event, it is ALWAYS a recreation...

My point is how to make this recreation a stunning experience...

It is ok to have " no masking or any undesirable signature from the play back engineer room" but how will you create ideal listening conditions in your own room?

By using only passive treatment and erasing your room from the sound?

By using active controls and giving to your room an active role?

What is the best?

The best is the cheapest way to create a stunnning audio experience is not upgrading your audio system to a more transparent one at prohibitive cost,but transforming your room in a positive player...The rewarding is astounding and the cost very low....

This is my experiment...This is my point....

Saying that we must listening our stereo system directly to keep the brain calm is saying something that makes no sense at all, except for those who think that electronic engineering is the key audio element ....But is is acoustic the fundamental player...

You can replace any speakers or amplifier or dac, by an equal but different good one, but you cannot replace a room....We live with it and we can transform it tough....

In a word, the role plays by the room treated or not, controlled or not, is absolutely STUNNING, but unbeknownst to most audiophile focus centrered on their favorite electronic component they sometimes taste, it  seems like branded cheese, keeping their brain " calm "outside the " tumult" of their room it seems, directing their attention to the recording.......  :)

This is  my point....
Mahgister wrote: "how will you create ideal listening conditions in your own room?"

That would take a while for me to answer and would de-rail or hijack the thread.

I get the impression that you have something you’d like to share:

"The best is the cheapest way to create a stunning audio experience is not upgrading your audio system to a more transparent one at prohibitive cost, but transforming your room in a positive player...The rewarding is astounding and the cost very low....

"This is my experiment...This is my point.... "

It sound like you are very excited about something you have done in your room. Maybe you could start a thread about it?

Duke
we speak about first reflections point and their obstructiveness or usefulness...

It seems to me that i was speaking about that...

It seems to you otherwise...

You do not enjoy a change of perspective it seems?

Perhaps it will be a good idea to read Floyd Toole article...You will have a cue of what i speak about ...

My best to you... I will go....

Mahgister, it sounded to me like you have created a "stunning audio experience" by doing something to you room, but I have absolutely no idea what you have done. I have no idea what your "change of perspective" is, but would like to. You seem to be very excited about it.  Have you discovered something new?

It also sounds like you may feel offended by something I said, which was not my intent. If you want to talk about that too, feel free.

Which Floyd Toole article are you referring to? I’m somewhat familiar with his work on sound reproduction, and on the acoustics and psychoacoustics of loudspeakers and rooms.

Duke