Direct Drive vs. Idler Drive vs. Belt drive

Mike, It is interesting to hear from you on this subject.  About 7-10 years ago, you had 3 turntables set up.  One was a tweaked Garrard 301, another was a Rockport Sirius, and the third was a Technics, as I recall, eventually replaced by a Dobbins Technics and then by Dobbins' The Beat.  Have I got that about right?  You were my guru on this subject. Based on your posts and those of some others, I got into experimenting with different drive systems myself.  Having never owned anything but belt-drives, I felt that I knew what they do, up to the price point that limits my selection.  So I acquired a Lenco and highly modified it, and eventually an SP10 Mk3 in slate+wood plinth, a Kenwood L07D, bone stock, a Denon DP80 in slate, and a Victor TT101 in a massy wood and aluminum damped plinth.  Again, I had to play in the cost area that is compatible with my level of affluence.  It has been a very educational experience.  I now run two turntables feeding one system that drives Beveridge 2SW speakers and three turntables feeding my main system that drives a pair of electrically modified Sound Lab 845PXs. It's wretched excess but fun to listen to the same LP interpreted several slightly different ways by the different turntable/tonearm/cartridge combinations.  I must say the highly tweaked Lenco (with input from Win Tinnon) holds its own quite nicely vs the 4 direct drives, and I firmly believe these turntables outperform belt-drives under $10,000 that I have heard.  However, a neighbor had a Dohmann Helix turntable with the built-in Minus K suspension.  That is a way more than $25,000 belt-drive that made me feel a bit of lust.  Or I should call it curiosity to try it in my own systems.  But that isn't going to happen because of cost.  Anyway, it's interesting that you decided to go back to having multiple turntables, after having been happy with the NVS for so long.  Carry on.

Sad to say Mike has no rim drive example. Oh well. Always room for one more, eh?

........and the Dodo bird is extinct for a reason. :-)

just kidding. Chris Brady’s turntables were enjoyable to listen to. and he was a good guy too.

seriously though, the rim drive and idler are the same concept turned inside out. again.....execution of those two similar 'high' leverage drive approaches is much more significant than the dogma of outside or inside.

@lewm

Mike, It is interesting to hear from you on this subject. About 7-10 years ago, you had 3 turntables set up. One was a tweaked Garrard 301, another was a Rockport Sirius, and the third was a Technics, as I recall, eventually replaced by a Dobbins Technics and then by Dobbins’ The Beat. Have I got that about right? You were my guru on this subject.

thanks Lew. and right you are. but back then my collection of turntables (other than the Rockport and NVS) was at more modest price points. i enjoyed my NVS these last 9 years, but decided to invest in a top level belt and top level idler as i found that the music was not ideally served by one drive approach. and it’s been great fun and musically satisfying getting back to having choices when playing vinyl.

the belt drive and idler i have now are as low noise and speed steady as my direct drive; and both are even heavier. all three have high mass platters and plinths.

Thank you all for your links, explanations, and experiences. 
It seems that some of you have already traveled the journey I'm starting on. I've owned belt driven turntables for many years, and over a year ago I added a Garrard 401 idler drive. Last month I added another idler drive, a Garrard 301.
In my system, my belt-drive turntable is more balanced and at this time if I were to own just one turntable it would probably be a belt drive. My idlers are excellent and I really don't have any issues with noises and rumble that are commonly attributed to idlers. I do feel that my Garrards are better geared towards jazz, blues, vocals, and small ensembles, with this type of music it really shines. With classical and fast music that benefits from an analytical presentation, it doesn't sound quite as good as my belt drive. Perhaps my opinion will change after more work is put into the Garrards, only time will tell.
My curiosity now is how a direct-drive sound, will it sound more like my belt drive or more like my idlers?

your first reaction to a good direct drive is that it will sound somewhat digital, in that it won’t have any character of it’s own. of course, it can sound perfectly natural yet the lack of coloration will require an adjustment. it will have more slam, but not quite the drive, of your idlers. lower noise, blacker backgrounds, wider stage, a bigger, spacious type sound, not quite as focused. it might be more speed steady than your belt drive.

Rock music will soar with direct drive. large scale will hold together. maybe slightly less sexy than the belt drives, maybe a touch less liquid. the contrast will depend on the quality of your three choices for drive types and their level of condition and set-up and ancillary gear.

as you go up the food chain for each of these drive types they all get very quiet and there are fewer downsides of their drive types, just attributes to enjoy. better bearings, heavier platters, higher mass plinths, better motors....matter in each drive type. no replacement for displacement. music loves to be grounded solidly.