Any heard/heard of Whest DAP.10 R processor?

James did indeed reply, and seems like a very nice gentleman.

I'm not sure how to evaluate the reply - he seems to agree with my assessment of Redbook audio, then talks about phase shift in amplifiers, how the DAP acts on ultrasonics, and states that CD players have output above 30khz irregardless of engineering principles.

I guess it becomes a matter of faith (and in this hobby I've heard "impossible" differences in components before).

Looking forward to a review from an actual user.

My original email and reply below.
***********************************************************
Hi Mark



Thanks for the enquiry. As you are very aware the basic operating principles of 16bit digital are as you have stated.

The factors of reproduction above 22Khz for do not cover the full output stage plus analog filtering.

If you send a 10Khz signal into an amplifier you don’t just get 10Khz out!

The DAP.10 does not process in the ‘audible’ domain but this does not mean that it has no effect on it.

As you also know theory and practise are two very different things. The theory behind 16bit, 24bit, SACD bares nothing to sound reproduction.

It’s the first thing you need to remember in R&D…..don’t read the book!

If that were the case a Mark Levinson CD player would sound the same a $500 Marantz CD player.

Ever heard a discrete super tweeter? Why does it work?

There is more to digital sound reproduction than what is written in the RED book as many high–end audio manufactures already know.



What we found about 4 or so years ago was that well above 30Khz all CD players exhibit several extremely low level peaks.

What causes these peaks are still in R&D. We also found a fair amount of out of phase information in the same areas.

Out of phase information is quite typical in any audio amplifier, whether it be in a buffer stage or output stage.

What we also noticed was that by applying a phase shift to one of the peaks, caused a fairly unpleasant ‘ripple’ to be sent back down

the audio band. Applying a similar shift to another reduced it’s effect. After much ‘peak-selection’ and phase shift circuits we managed to

reduce the amount of ‘ripple’ being sent back down the audible band with out actually touching it. You’ll find that with a DAP.10 in a system

the inherent system sound (signature) does not change but the system resolution does.



I hope this answers your question. The thing to do is to listen to one.



What system do you run? Are you relatively happy with it?



best regards



James

















-----Original Message-----

Sent: 29 December 2004 04:16
To: [email protected]
Subject: Question about DAP 1



Can you shed some light on the operation of your DAP 1 processor? I've been considering ordering one, but am unclear on its operating principles.



Your site claims that the DAP acts to realign frequencies above 35khz and has no effect on frequencies below this point. The problem I have is that no properly designed CD player, whether oversampled, upsampled, or non-oversampled (1FS) has any output above 22.05 khz (half the Nyquist sampling frequency of 44.1 khz). One of the major jobs of the reconstruction filters (digital and analog) in the player/DAC is to block everything above this point.

SACD has output beyond 35khz, but much of this is quantization noise relocated from the audio range to this region by the player's noise shaping circuits. It has little correlation to the music.



If your processor has no effect on signals under 35 khz, then how can it have any effect on the sound of the CD player?



Regards,

Mark Guidry

Thanks for posting the exchange, Mark. I also just received a private e-mail from Robm1 (posted above), and he said the same thing: just listen to one. He had the Audio Aero Capitole and moved to the Prima + the DAP.10 and said that in every way (airyness, imaging, dynamics), the latter combination is superior to the single box Capitole. It certainly is an interesting concept, though I don't pretend to understand the science of it.

Has anyone previously tried something similar? I'm too new to this hobby to know the answer to that one. I'm just anxious to hear what it does in my system. And I'll certainly post my findings to the best of my abilities.

I'll also plan on getting a couple of local A'gon members over for a listen as well, and hopefully will have the chance to try it out in their systems too.

Have a great New Year's,
Howard

This is a follow-up to my brief experience with the Whest DAP.10. I say brief because I ordered the unit several weeks ago from Audio Advisor, and when I received it on the 7th of this month, it was not working. It is in fact on the way back now to Audio Advisor, and I expect that they will refund my money when they receive the unit.

When I turned on the DAP.10, it came on the very first time with a loud hum, which quieted down after about five seconds. Suddenly, a foul smell of burnt electrics filled the room, and music came out of the left channel only. I heard some crackling and popping from the right channel, but it quickly went silent. As you can probably guess, I was not too pleased, having just spent $1749 to see if the DAP.10 could take my system to the next level. I was highly encouraged to try the unit because I too have an Audio Aero Prima CD player like Robm1 above. Unfortunately, however, I never got the chance to experience the capabilities of the DAP.10.

That same day, I wrote to James at Whest Audio--the manufacturer of the DAP.10--with a request for his input on the possible reasons for the failure of the unit. I told him that I thought he would want to hear directly from me about the experience, and that I wanted to answer the several requests I had offer an evaluation of the unit, but I had no intention of badmouthing his product. How could I when I did not even get the chance to hear it? I told him that I understand the difficulty in bringing a product to market, let alone maintaining its favor with the public. Incidentally, this was not the first time I had experienced the immediate failure of a component. Last year, a highly respected audio company sent me a preamp that failed the first night, waking us up to the nasty smell of toasted internals. I contacted the company, and they immediately rectified the problem. Whest Audio, for some reason, has chosen a different tact.

In the 10 days since receiving the unit, I have written James three more e-mails. Sadly, I have not received any response from him. I guessed that perhaps they were on vacation, at CES, or just plain out of the office. But I figured that they would have made arrangements for someone to respond. Every other dealer/manufacturer with whom I have corresponded over the past couple of weeks did so in a timely fashion, even when e-mailing in the middle of CES.

I thought about ordering another unit, and spoke to another dealer about it. He offered a fair price for the DAP.10, but without the 30-day trial period provided by Audio Advisor. However, when I wrote him about my problems with the unit, I did not hear back from him either. Perhaps my request for his input concerning the product failure was not clear enough.

Following all of these events, my wife absolutely refuses to consider ordering another DAP.10, whether on a trial period or not. We are still considering upgrading our source, but unfortunately the DAP.10 will not be on our list of options.

I only hope that I eventually hear from James, as he seems a very cordial man with a viable product. It stressed me to even consider posting the details of my experience with the DAP.10/Whest Audio, but this is ultimately a place of learning. So there you have it.

All the best,
Howard

Howard

just read your post. I spoke to James on Friday to see whether I could buy some of the Whest interconnects from him. The ones supplied with the DAP.10 are great and compare to ics in the $250. Anyway, he was in fact at CES but we did talk about your faulty unit amongst other things and he did mention sending you a reply but he has no idea what the fault could be. I too have seen all sorts of faulty audio from hifi dealers. My last piece was my Prima which had a channel down. Nothing is perfect out there and is something that I realised years ago so I don't bother getting bothered about it anymore. Anyway for me and FF on audioreview and plenty others the DAP.10 is a great product and worthy of an award. Also a review is due out in HiFi News next issue.

rob

Rob,
I did in fact hear from James today, as he apparently had been alerted to my post on this forum. I told him that I would be happy to post his e-mail as well, but only if he OK'd it first. However, I think that from my response to him (below), you get the general idea of what he said.

Dear James,

Thank you for the mail. After sending four e-mails, excuse me for saying that it appears serendipitous to
have at last received a response the day after I reluctantly posted the details of my experience. I had actually outlined the matter in a private e-mail with another member, who then insisted it was appropriate to convey this to the audio community,as this addresses in fact the needs of the community in its relationship with the dealers and manufacturers.

I'm sorry if it appears as though you have no regard with servicing matters. Simply put, I have yet to have (in over 65 transactions and countless e-mails and telephone
conversations with sellers of all types a lapse in response. And if you did in fact respond
earlier, I also can't say why I did not receive any of them. I would presume that four e-mails
would garner at least one response making it successfully back to me. As I said in my post, several dealers/manufacturers responded from CES directly, so I don’t accept that this was an issue that was as you say, "out of my control." James, the company
is yours. Who else is someone supposed to turn to? Am I simply to presume that you will appear again at some point to respond to my needs as a customer?

Frankly, I doubt that anything I said will have a negative effect on the sales of Whest Audio, James. And that was not my intention. I said so in my e-mails to you. I was simply trying to get a fair evaluation of your product, and hopefully will still have that opportunity at some point. However, it might be useful for you to consider as the manufacturer what would be the most appropriate response for a customer who has just paid $1750US for your product that is not working. I don’t believe that I am an anomaly in wanting to assuage some of my apprehension in trying out another DAP.10, and you sir are the only person with the power to do this.

Thank you for the correspondence. I will in fact post a follow-up on the web site, and if you
wish I will even post your response below.

Best regards,
Howard