Searching for matching(?) Subwoofer solution

Dear @noble100 : """ I view this thread as a collaborative effort to try and assist.... """

werll that’s what you say but the true reality is that for you that 4 bass array/A K Swarm is a " religion " and good that you are satisfied with that kind of quality level performance.

Because you posted in this thread I know that for you is more important quantity of subs over the quality of subs performance.

@mijostyn speaks about quality over quantity and agree with him because that’s mu take too and even that @mcreyn did not said exactly usin the word quality he perfectly took in count it the importance of subs in two channels MUSIC system in what he posted as number 3):

""" crossover to relieve those 5" drivers in your main speaker from bass duties. By reproducing deeper bass, especially as the volume level increases, the driver will experience increased distortion.... """

that’s what makes a paramount difference in quality system performance: lowering the Intermodulation Distortions levels on those Ologue 5 main speakers.

You can’t speak about quality because your system quality level for MUSIC is to low. Is so low that you just can’t listen/hear the big difference between listening a passive speaker in its original frequency range design and the same speakers relieved from low bass frequencies.

With all respect only a " deaf " or in a very poor quality level system can’t any one listen/appreciate the enormous differences when the main passive speakers are relieved of the low bass range ( 80hz and down. ).
The difference is, believe it or not, nigth and day and has a name QUALITY level performance. Unfortunatelly you use too for HT your system.

From where came my statement that you have a very poor quality listening system. Well from your self statements made it in other threads:

Your small Magnepan psssive speakers has at specs:

Low-Pass 12dB/octave @ 650Hz

Band-Pass 6dB/octave @ 500Hz-950Hz

tyhat means that the quai-ribbon driver handle a really wide frequency range with very high IMD levels and even that you posted:


""" In my system, I’ve tried both configurations of running my planar panel mains full-range and with my mains as satellites with their low frequencies filtered out by the sub amp supplied with the Audio Kinesis Debra DBA system, This amp has a L/R high pass outputs for sending frequencies above the bass crossover setting to the main speakers amps.
I thought my system sounded best with the main speakers running full-range. The mid-range and treble range sounded very similar to me with both configurations """



I had for 4 months Magnepan speakers and I like it and know very well other planar ( electrostatic. ) speakers as the top of the line Soundlabs where the owner of them can’t believe what he listened when he added two subs in his great room/system ( only MUSIC, not HT. ). No matters what is almost imposible not to be aware of the differences for the better when the low bass range gone from the main speakers.

You not only did not been aware about but the system sounded best with main speakers running full range ! ! !

Well that is the quality level you have. I’m accustomed to a way different quality level.
As I said a 4-bass Swarm religion. Quality?: who cares !

I think that before any one of us can help to any one we have to know where we are truly " seated ". Please not bad feelings, I'm not against you or your free rigth to post whatever you want it: NO.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

Even the AK SWARM manufacturer/owner posted in this forum:

"""  You can get good bass in one sweet spot with two equalized subs  """. Not 3 or 4 but TWO.

Obviously that for him the 4 SWARM is not his personal " religion " and he is the man behind the AK sales ! ! !.

R.

Hi @hleeid,

My rig is nowhere near the quality as some you folks here but where I did spend some coin was on the subwoofers. I had owned many SVS subs over these short few years but was never quite satisfied with them. Then doing research as we do when looking to ’upgrade’ I stumbled across the Power Sound Audio or PSA AVS Forum. To make a long story short I ended buying 2 subs from PSA after researching the Vandersteen brand of subs and a bunch of others.

Apparently the ’Vandy’s’ as they are so affectionately called are a well beloved sub here on Gon and elsewhere and this is what Mr. Vandersteen had to say about subwoofers:

’Mono or Stereo Bass

There are significant advantages to using two subwoofers. Modern sources such as streaming, CDs, DVDs, digital high-resolution music files, and Blu-ray Discs maintain full stereo separation to below 20Hz. Summing the channels into a single subwoofer reduces or cancels all the low-frequency information containing phase differences between the channels. Stereo subwoofers reproduce all of the bass information complete with the phase differences that help provide the imaging and location cues we use to place people and things at distinct points in the sound field. Stereo subwoofers also improve linearity on mono as well as stereo sources by coupling the bass to the room at two points and lend themselves to natural placement near the corners where low frequency room gain is often desirable.

Ultimate Multi-Channel

A pair of SUB THREE subwoofers is the premier configuration for high-quality multi-channel home theater systems where the surround-sound processor can be programmed to redirect the LFE (Low Frequency Effects) information to the main speakers. In addition to the benefits of stereo bass, disabling the surround processor’s LFE output often improves the system ’s midrange clarity and articulation. For the ultimate system, additional SUB THREE’s can be added to the surround channels.’

After reading about what Mr. Vandersteen had to say about subwoofers it was good enough for me and researching PSA subs I knew I couldn’t afford the Vandy’s but I could afford dual PSA subs.

One of the owners of PSA is Tom Vodhanel who was/is the ’V’ in SVS subwoofers.

Here are some of the reasons I bought PSA subs:

1) They are very well built.

2) Have very forward engineering.

3) Have a 5 year warranty. Even the used ones in the PSA outlet center. And there is nothing wrong with buying used as they are thoroughly gone through and up to specs and  are very cost effective.

4) Customer service is the best in the subwoofer business.

5) Has a trade up/trade in/trade down policy and not only pays for the shipping TO the customer but pays for shipping the subs BACK to the PSA manufacturing site! This comes in handy when you want to audition at home.

6) They sound damn good too, without that annoying booming sound some sub manufactures have. Just good clear, clean sound.

7) Has many subwoofer choices with multiple price points and all the PSA subs benefit from the company’s same proprietary designs.

Here is the website: https://www.powersoundaudio.com

rauliruegas:
"Even the AK SWARM manufacturer/owner posted in this forum:

""" You can get good bass in one sweet spot with two equalized subs """. Not 3 or 4 but TWO.

Obviously that for him the 4 SWARM is not his personal " religion " and he is the man behind the AK sales ! ! !

R."


Hello rauliruegas,

     Easy, I completely agree and said so on my first post on this thread.  Here's a direct quote of my initial post:

"Everything millercarbon stated is true, a 4-sub distributed bass array is the best solution. However, in a home office environment in which I'm assuming you'll be listening primarily from your desk chair, I think a pair of SVS-SB1000 subs, currently on sale for 1/2 price at $499 each and $950 for a pair, will provide very good bass performance, if properly positioned in your room, that will also integrate or blend with any pair of main speakers used. There's absolutely no need to use the same brand subs as your main speakers and you're going to save at least $7,000.
    Here's a link to the SVS website and the SB1000 subs:"

     Calm down, everything's going to be okay.

Tim

tyray:
"Apparently the ’Vandy’s’ as they are so affectionately called are a well beloved sub here on Gon and elsewhere and this is what Mr. Vandersteen had to say about subwoofers:

’Mono or Stereo Bass

There are significant advantages to using two subwoofers. Modern sources such as streaming, CDs, DVDs, digital high-resolution music files, and Blu-ray Discs maintain full stereo separation to below 20Hz. Summing the channels into a single subwoofer reduces or cancels all the low-frequency information containing phase differences between the channels. Stereo subwoofers reproduce all of the bass information complete with the phase differences that help provide the imaging and location cues we use to place people and things at distinct points in the sound field. Stereo subwoofers also improve linearity on mono as well as stereo sources by coupling the bass to the room at two points and lend themselves to natural placement near the corners where low frequency room gain is often desirable."

Hello tyray,

     I seriously doubt someone as knowledgeable and experienced as Mr. Vandersteen would make the numerous obviously false statements contained in your supposed quote of him you cited above in your last post.

     Please verify this quote as valid by referencing  your source for this quote.  I'm almost certain you'll be unable to do so, however, and you'll likely just fail to ever provide any reference, never admitting to your deliberate false quote.

    To keep this simple, I'll just take your lack of posting and citing a valid quote reference in the next 48 hours as your admission of knowingly misquoting Mr. Vandersteen.

     In other words, I'm calling you on your b.s.

Tim