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Vibratory or Not?

This is a discussion that for me began on the Stereophile forum which went horribly wrong in my opinion. I was wondering though if this same topic could be discussed here as it comes up a lot in one form or another. My background has been about vibratory tuning as far back as the 70's work in the recording industry and continued into home audio and beyond. The audio signal is one that can be easily tuned, I doubt there is much room there for debate, but we will see, it's Audiogon after all. This being the case I have always concluded that the audio signal is vibratory so has anyone I have ever worked with. It's a common and sometimes even daily practice for someone here to make a vibratory adjustment changing the sound which is obvious to all.

On some of these forum threads however you will see posts saying to get rid of the vibration, without any explanation as to how to remove vibration without altering the audio signal. Every vibratory move I have ever seen done changes the performance of the sound. I've also been a part of the variables of the audio signal during play in real time. If the audio signal is not vibratory how does it change?

I invite you to discuss the vibratory structure and nature of the audio signal.

thanks, lets keep trolling to a minimum please

128x128michaelgreenaudio
michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio OP
1,019 posts
 

"Michael, is it still ok to read your thread if we don't want to be a tunee?"

I think you can answer that for yourself by answering a related question. Have you ever changed out a component? Why?

MG

michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio OP
1,019 posts
 

Some HEA hobbyist spend so much time defending their practices that it’s not until they get to the end of their hobby before they see what they did as being backward. They make Tuning into something difficult conceptually instead of seeing the alternative.

How many times do we hear someone say they wish they had that system they once did, or how many times do we see someone say the system they now have is the best they have ever heard and within a short amount of time we see that they are selling off and buying something new. And of course the new is better than the old until some time passes and they are back in the HEA component revolving door. It’s a weird little revolving door when you think about how this part of the hobby is so "in search of" yet rarely even lets a component work in a system. A hobby inside of another hobby.

When you buy a guitar the first thing you do is put the strings on and tune the instrument. Pretty basic procedure. The guitar will go in and out of tune often until the instrument starts to settle then tuning becomes more precise as the guitar takes on it’s vibratory self.

HEA component collectors buy products with a different mindset even though the same vibratory settling takes place with every component just like that guitar. "Well it’s electronics that’s different!" LOL, different? The fact is an electronic component takes a much longer journey to settle in vs any musical instrument. Fact is, like a guitar, components never stop maturing. Aging is part of the Fundamental Forces and gravity in particular assures us that this maturing process is always in change and never ending.

Your components are not isolated from the fields, but a part of the fields. Here’s a simple example. Ever notice how different your system sounds as we go from night to day and back to night again. Or, how different it sounds as the weather changes, or you add (turn on or off) appliances to your house. If you started taking note of how many things change the sound of your system, and trace them back to the cause and effect you would find vibratory at the root of change. Motion, time and interaction are continuums.

MG

jetter
2,953 posts
 
Michael, I just don't read long posts anymore.  While I am not tunee material, I will say that your comment about its a shame that preamps don't having tone controls is right on.  I just accepted the "its because anything in the signal path is bad" argument.  Never again.
michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio OP
1,019 posts
 

Watts are watts, really?

If you take two components and they measure exactly the same (say an amplifier) you should ask why they still sound different. We did this by buying the same model of components with consecutive serial numbers and were a little more than surprised at how differently they staged. It wasn't just surprising how they staged at first but how they became different sounding animals as time went on.

For example, same amp model same measurements with one broken in on panel speakers for a year and the other on dynamic speakers. At the end of the year playing both on yet a different pair of speakers the two amps sound amazingly different. Two amps starting with the same specs yet after playing different loads for a year the two amps now sounded like they were two different models altogether. Same thing happened with the same amp models being used in different parts of the world during break in. Amplifiers develop their own character of sound dependent upon how they are being used. What does this do for reviewing non-tunable components?

Trying to displace physics variables from this hobby is strange at best, we are talking about sending an alternating current through mechanical conduits in different Vibratory environments. If we were talking about cars right now we would be talking about computers keeping the performance in line yet our audio systems are supposed to play perfectly and automatically every time we put on a different recording?

I can see this mythical teaching being accepted for a year or two many decades ago during the age of paperback golden ears, when we were glued to our monthly copies hoping we were a part of innovation, but in the age of information we would have to be pretty isolated to discount the physical interactions taking place with our systems. Remove yourself from your wishful thinking just for a moment. An audio chain with all Vibratory parts and pieces staying in tune while passing the variable audio signal, while sitting on a vibrating planet revolving. To top this off, playing recordings with their own unique variables and your system having one volume control for the adjustments.

MG

geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
michaelgreenaudio
Your components are not isolated from the fields, but a part of the fields.

You might be getting a little carried away with the Fundamental Interactions. Let’s float back down to Earth for a moment. Vibration produces forces, not fields. Seismic vibration produces forces in six (count em!) directions. This silly little inner tube thinggies I suspect you probably tried won’t get you very far. They are not effective in most of the six directions and just barely do anything at all in one direction. It’s no wonder you’re a disbeliever.

However, the springs you use ARE isolators. There’s no escaping that. It is almost physically impossible to use springs so they aren’t isolators. Hel-loo! So, while you might be an isolation denier you are, in reality, a member in good standing of the isolation club. Welcome aboard, sailor!

Remember, you want to emulate the Big Boys, LIGO, the project that observed gravity waves. And what’s the Big Boys’ motto? You know. The only good vibration is a dead vibration. The audio signal is not (rpt not) like a musical instrument. 🎻 Violins can be played at funerals, though. The funeral for the dead vibrations!
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