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Hear my Cartridges....🎶

Many Forums have a 'Show your Turntables' Thread or 'Show your Cartridges' Thread but that's just 'eye-candy'.... These days, it's possible to see and HEAR your turntables/arms and cartridges via YouTube videos.
Peter Breuninger does it on his AV Showrooms Site and Michael Fremer does it with high-res digital files made from his analogue front ends.
Now Fremer claims that the 'sound' on his high-res digital files captures the complex, ephemeral nuances and differences that he hears directly from the analogue equipment in his room.
That may well be....when he plays it through the rest of his high-end setup 😎
But when I play his files through my humble iMac speakers or even worse.....my iPad speakers.....they sound no more convincing than the YouTube videos produced by Breuninger.
Of course YouTube videos struggle to capture 'soundstage' (side to side and front to back) and obviously can't reproduce the effects of the lowest octaves out of subwoofers.....but.....they can sometimes give a reasonably accurate IMPRESSION of the overall sound of a system.

With that in mind.....see if any of you can distinguish the differences between some of my vintage (and modern) cartridges.
VICTOR X1
This cartridge is the pinnacle of the Victor MM designs and has a Shibata stylus on a beryllium cantilever. Almost impossible to find these days with its original Victor stylus assembly but if you are lucky enough to do so.....be prepared to pay over US$1000.....🤪
VICTOR 4MD-X1
This cartridge is down the ladder from the X1 but still has a Shibata stylus (don't know if the cantilever is beryllium?)
This cartridge was designed for 4-Channel reproduction and so has a wide frequency response 10Hz-60KHz.
Easier to find than the X1 but a lot cheaper (I got this one for US$130).
AUDIO TECHNICA AT ML180 OCC
Top of the line MM cartridge from Audio Technica with Microline Stylus on Gold-Plated Boron Tube cantilever.
Expensive if you can find one....think US$1000.

I will be interested if people can hear any differences in these three vintage MM cartridges....
Then I might post some vintage MMs against vintage and MODERN LOMC cartridges.....🤗
halcro
halcro's avatar
halcro OP
2,664 posts
 
Haha....
Sorry Slaw......but I didn't consider this a 'contest' 🤼‍♂️
I hoped....but wasn't convinced.....that the tiny, sometimes ephemeral differences between cartridges might be able to be discerned on the videos?
I was so excited when I read that @frogman had managed this feat....I couldn't reply soon enough....
Bear in mind, that each of us has his own preferences and biases when it comes to 'ideal sound' so that out of the 100 or more cartridges I have owned and the 40+ that I still do.....my favourites all have an underlying 'relationship' to my preferred tonal qualities.
The differences between them then....relate to their other abilities such as 'Soundstage', 'Transparency', 'Upper-Frequency Air and Extension', 'Depth and Control of the Lowest Bass Frequencies' and finally.....overall "Emotional Involvement' and 'Magic'....
These qualities are the most subtle and ephemeral and ultimately are the ones which elevate the 'favouritism' of one cartridge over another.

My hope was that some of these qualities would not be 'lost' in the videos so that they could be a viable form of demonstrating the sound qualities of vintage cartridges that Chakster and I have been promoting for years.
If these qualities can cross the 'divide' into the videos.....then I can demonstrate the fallacy of the 'MCs are better than MMs' debate and the greater fallacy.....'expensive' MCs are better than 'cheap' MCs.

At any rate.....being able to hear the sound of some of these cheap vintage MM cartridges, may convince those who might never have the chance....to 'take the plunge'....😎

Finally Slaw.....please DO listen and give me your thoughts.
I think they will be valuable....👍
halcro's avatar
halcro OP
2,664 posts
 
Great shots as always Chakster.....👍
Fascinating information on the AT-ML180 OCC....but we have inadvertently uncovered a troubling anomaly as my ML180 OCC is described as having "gold-plated BORON cantilever" 🤪
Can you upload your Serial No which may tell us something....?
I can't find any Date on my package. Do you have one on your's?
My Package
My Stylus
noromance's avatar
noromance
10,240 posts
 
Interesting. Love the Albinoni Adagio. The X1 reminds me of the older Decca C4. 
frogman
7,574 posts
 
A couple of follow up thoughts, if I may.  While I was writing my previous comments, when listening to the X1 two things came to mind, good horn speakers and my Decca London.  I chose the comparison to horns beacause I was comparing the AT to Maggies and wanted to keep it consistent.  So, I agree wih noromance, similar to my impression of a classic Decca sound in some ways.  

The other thought was remembering a disagreement that I had on Raul’s MM thread.  I think the disagreement was with Raul, but herhaps Chakster (sorry, both).  I had made the comment that my ATML 170-OCC sounded, in comparison to some of my other favorite cartridges, a little subdued dynamically; not as alive sounding as others.  I realize that that ATML180 is a different cartridge, but I wonder about this possible family trait.
chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
@halcro well, there is a sticker on your box with updated information that your OCC version has a boron cantilever. I think the box is the same with the only difference that i have all info about Beryllium cantilever right on the box, not on the sticker (there is no stickers on my boxes). Also the OCC box with computer code is definitely from the 90s, not from the 80s like the LC-OFC box without any computer codes. 

Styli are interchangeable, but visually those cantilevers are the same, because they are both gold-plated. 

Maybe AT covered any information about Beryllium after this metal was found toxic and prohibited? Maybe this is why there is a sticker. Also we don't know what is under the sticker, probably different information. 

Anyway, this information is a proof. OCC comes with gold-plated Beryllium tapered cantilever, LC-OFC comes with Gold-Plated Boron Pipe cantilever.  

There might be a version of the  AT-ML180 OCC with Boron too. 

At the moment i have only one AT-ML180, my version is LC-OFC with Boron cantilever.  


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